When it comes to license in your business, there is predictably much to consider. So knowing where you stand in the current landscape and with what lies ahead is imperative. With that in mind, we recently invited you and Mac mcgregor, part of the team at Tl to speak at our dis lectures. Ew is a solicit advocate specializing in alcohol and gambling licensing and was voted licensing lawyer of the year Uk at the lawyer Monthly Legal awards 20 17. Working across England Wales in Scotland, previous projects that he has carried out include applying for and obtaining a premises license to facilitate the holding of large scale concerts at Ashton Gates stadium. And working with Lion brewery, he represented and advised the Australian brewery on their first application for a new premises license in the Uk, 1 that encompassed the Micro brewery Am barr. Please welcome you. You had a succession of really interesting speakers today, and at the end of the day, just what you need as a lawyer. So I... I'm gonna try and keep this as light as a lawyer can. My colleague Pierre Warm meant to be here. He can't be if you were expecting peers. I apologize. My name is Ew and Mcgregor, not that 1. You haven't even got the real union and Mcgregor. You haven't even got peers warm, but you've got me instead. And just a little bit a it's really interesting. Because I I... We do a lot this, and I always find it helpful to to listen to what other people saying stuff from the the guy is it David who was talking about the the the brands and stuff. It was like a sort of walk through my childhood talking about blue nun and pier door, and Bailey. I I sent a message to friend of mine who's who's partial to a bailey. At Christmas time and I said, You never guess I'm with him with the man who he was behind Bailey. Can you she said, can you just tell him not to produce more, please? Because she's had enough. She's had enough of it. And then there was... Somebody's talking about marketing earlier, and then we've just been hearing from from rankings. And they've been... I I picked up their british at the back. So supporting the beers wines and Spirits in 17 74 I haven't been supporting the license trader for quite as long. I think you've you sort of... I'm 220 years behind them, but I've been a licensing lawyer since about 19 94, and I've lived in Bristol since 19 90. The great thing about the hospitality sector. The law is quite dry. And you've gotta try and find something within the sector that grabs you in is is interesting. And I sort rather fell into licensing in the mid nineties. And the the thing that amaze me is that it's it's resilient to by god, you've had to be resilient to particularly over the last 5 or 6 years post Covid. And it's be interesting to see what the what the election and the various parties say that they'll gave gave do to support you as a sector, whether or not that actually comes to light. I don't know. But it's... It it changes. The sector changes. When I I think in the... Someone told me the eighties, I know this is true, but it's 1 of those facts that this has become a truth in my own head. It is that in the eighties, there were 21 brewers in Bristol. Which seems like back then would seem like quite high number. I suspect that there are way more brewers and dis in the city now than there were back in back in the 19 eighties. And I I think the figure is up to about 30. III stopped drinking in 20 15. It was a it was a dry January bet that got completely out of hand. And And I I sort of friend and I had a bet, and said bet you could do dry January. And I was... I reflected back of my life, and I thought, Don't think I've ever gone a month without a drink since I was 18. And so it stopped stopped drinking Besides January. He quit on the fourth of January I thought no Gonna see this through. And then I... And I stopped drinking. And my friend, you gave up drinking a really interesting time when brewers, lots of micro breweries evolving and lots of new drinks on the market. And the great thing is is that the the the sector has realized there is a massive market for people like me, and that the non alcoholic low alcoholic beers. When I was little, reading my mom dad's drinks cabinet trying to get my hands on the blue nun and the p door. It it is that the only and then but maybe nobody in the industry that this makes any sense. But was a stuff called caliber, which was revolt. And it just someone's nodding at the back. And it tasted of tin, but it was the closest you could get to drinking beer if you were 10 years old without just falling over. And... But now it's great. And there's lots and lots of different types of non low low non ireland call it beers in the market, which is great for people like me. It's great for the insulin. It does show that you evolve a new change. And the city itself has changed and from a licensing perspective. When I started out, in Bristol. When I came to Bristol the late eighties. All the nightlife was down in the center, it was a big night nightclub on tang called Bus bees on Baldwin Street, there was another it's probably called cinderella in in broad meat. And then also to moved up here up onto the strip onto white lady's road, and it moved down to the water sign. And now it's sort of all over the place a bit. And and it's I I think it's fascinated And III genuinely I take my hat off to you for being able to adapt to be resilient and to try and come up with new products and new ideas will appeal a a very broad range of people because it is difficult. It is competitive and there are well worn challenges that we all know about. In in the marketplace. I realized tim put some slides together. I don't know what the what's coming up next. So that's... Yeah. That's me. And the the the themes, I think that have come out of from what other people have said, I. There are 2 things. 1 is about relationships, and the lady was talking a about marketing, talked about relationships. I'm gonna just talk about that. And the other bit is about if you're gonna lose lose early and that's something that my marketing team at work told me is that if you're trying to pursue new clients or a new marketplace, just know when to stop, and there's probably true of industry as well as know when you're don't don't chase something that that that's not there. But Tl, we're based in... I... I'm based in Bristol practice based around country. Full service law practice, and this is the only marketing I'm gonna do, but we act for a 1 end of the spectrum, the largest public license public gatherings in the country. So over the last 2 or 3 years, we we license all the royal parks for the Queen's plus J and for the King's coronation. And then at the other end of the scale, we're doing work for small off licenses in the city, and around and around the country. So it is a very broad spectrum. But the 1 key in all of it. The 1 key thing in all of licensing is relationships, relationships, are key. And as with most things in life, the stronger those relationships, the better you will get on in life. And you... We we see that with relationships with local authorities, relationships with if you have large event safety advisory groups. And with the police, the environmental health, the licensing authority Bristol City council if you're based in Bristol wherever you are, and also your local residents. And and do you ignore all of those relationships at your peril. And and again, as with most things in life is that if you if you have those strong relationships with people across the board, The reality is is that they're going to be a little bit more forgiving if things do go wrong. And because you're in a business that involves volumes of people coming in out of your front door, your people working behind the bar. With with any human interaction, there is the potential or possibility for something go wrong. And it's just a fact of life. And you have to manage that. And as long as the people that you are engaging with on a either on a local level, whether it's your your neighbors or with the authorities. And if they see if those relationships are strong, and they see that you are trying to do something to address those issues. They will be more forgiving. And so build those relationships. And don't be shy about being transparent about what you're trying to do. So if you've got a new idea, if you're if you're if you're a retailer, if you're a if you're running a bar, we always encourage all of our clients to engage in what's called pre application, consultation. And that is telling people what you're going to do before you do it. And it does add a little bit of, time into the process. And it does add a little bit of money into the process. But if you end up with a licensing hearing, and we deal with the loss of days Bristol City council or licensing committee sit city hall down the road. We go across the country, and do those do those applications But if you turn up to licensing hearing and say to the community committee, we engaged in pre application consultation with all of these people, the politics with the small people will play out so much better. But if you just rock up and say, well, we've done this on a wing in a prayer, shut the application in and hope the best. It's not a good look, and it's all placed to your brand into your reputation when you do go and sit before a committee. And and Gone are the days way back when when I I started out doing licensing in the the 19 nineties and early 2 thousands. Sort of pre social media pre, there was a world pre internet. You did put up notices hope for the best. Hope for the work... Hope the word didn't get around the local community that such and such of bars put in an application until 04:00 in the morning wherever it is. People don't miss these things anymore because once there are Whatsapp groups, it's all on the cancel website, be open with people. Don't be shy. Be confident about what what it is that you're going to do and tell people before you go public. And the reason we say to people to do pre application consultation is that you get a very early sense of what it... What what potential bumps there may be in the road, and actually, if there was any merit in making the application at all. Try and change your license and change the hours or what what activities that you might want to provide within your within your license premise. And I know this... I... And this is... You you can take this as you like, but we would encourage you to just get proper advice early on. And then if you don't, we have seen a lot of clients who have come to us. They've got 3 quarters of the way down in line, and we then try to unpack what what has gone on before. And actually, it it works out that it is more cost cost effective way of working out. Is that we we've seen clients the contest and so we want to make this application. Mis, we should do some pre application consultation. They say fine, let's do that. You do the consultation and actually what falls out for that is, this is a non starter. And so you save a lot of pain and headache further down the line. But if if it is a runner, then we help formulate the process or or manage that process and to avoid people getting into difficulties with what may end up being very expensive hearings or appeals further down the line. And I know it does sound like sort of self promotion for us, but trust me, we've we had... I dealt with a case about a week ago, down at at city hall and the clients are well. We'll we'll we'll model through the first half of it and if we need to then we'll we'll engage with you at at that stage. Have they got us involved early on? It would have been a lot cheaper, as it was you're trying to pick the problems that that take place further down the line. So there is some merit in getting some sensible advice early on before before you engage in the process. And even if you are are things called humans this is really boring legal bit, and I'll be quick about. There are things called cumulative impact areas where, and Park Street in. Is 1 of them, where there is a presumption to refuse any application, new application or a significant variation. And sometimes people get put off by that. But through prices of careful management, you can get longer hours for your bar, you can increase the activities that's that you want to provide within your premise. But but it needs to be approached in the right way. And not far from here, 1 halfway down on the left hand side, and maybe half dozen doors down here on the right hand side. Clients came to us and we'd like a 5 or 06:00 license And we said, well, it's going to be a challenge, but let's try and manage you through the process. And they now have licenses, till 06:00 in the morning. And IIII suspect that if you try and do that on your own, you might be won't blame me I've got the police against My, the environmental health officer against me. But all these people so, I'm just gonna pull it. So there's a way of getting to where you want to get to. Even though there are certain bumps in the road. But the advantage of engaging, it's an early stage is that, you identify what those bumps are you can take a considered decision as to whether or not you pursue it, and then you know what you're in for further on down the line. So not all is lost. There are 2 there are 2 slides here of of clients. So Lion is a very lasting scrubber of glass water. Large Australian, an international brewer. And I'm not in entire... I'm not entirely sure how they how they came to me, but they they approached me, about 5 or 6 years ago said, I met their new sites development manager. And I said, well, where do you decide where these new sites? They're going to be. And he said just... He's I picked cities that I want to go and visit. And that's how he determines where the new sites were. So he was in London, he was off to say Paolo, and then he was getting to San Francisco. And I said do you need an assistant. He said, I do, but you're about t in line. So you're gonna have to wait your turn. But that the bay had a site north of King's Cross station. I don't if, I mean, if you know King's Crossed. When I was little King's cross was And this was a line that was told me by a copper about 2 weeks ago, drug dealers and hooker. And now if you go there, and you go north of King's cross up to Gran square. There's a place called cold drops yard. And it's lovely. It's all very she, and some nice independent bars and restaurants. And so they took a space at what was going to be at the on the ground floor of and Facebook we're taking this block, and lion had this concept called little creatures. And they they wanted it literally as a shot winded. Try and sell their beer. They won't going to roll out a huge number of them across the country, but they wanted to... They they wanted 1 London. They wanted to 1 in Say Paolo and wherever wherever else was. And so we engage with the police, we agreed a formula for what the license was and the license was was granted just as they're about to open 20 22 falls on us, we have the pandemic. And Facebook don't take the lease of the building above them. And that's sort of transformed the way that they've... That they had to look at their business. And the the the business has subsequently been sold and it now. I think the traders of bark called Babe Brew house. Is good. There's a there's a brewery in there. Za brew beer, and they do pizzas, and it's a good formula, and it works. And I went there with my son on a Tuesday, wet Tuesday to but early evening, and it was he. Lots of other bars nearby not so busy, but it's called babe Beer has, and it's and it's great. And I remember years ago. So I'm just telling leave tales of time's gone by. We got instructed by the brewery Micro brewery in Bristol. And I just thought it's never going to work. And it's it was 1 of the first... It's large Micro brewery in the city. And it's still here. 20 odd years and later, and it's and it's still doing well. And we see more and more of that, whether they're, breweries or tap rooms, and my colleague peers has has certainly within the city has acted for a lot of those micro breweries. And then at the other end of the scale, that's Ashton Gate, and we were fortunate enough to opposite the spectrum to you know, relatively small micro brew with a small food offering. And different challenges, but the process that you adopt in all of this is is not dissimilar, and you're looking at building relationships and an engagement. And with with s, local residents I think over a period of time are quite forgiving. For any stadium whether it was ashton Gag it's Chelsea, Chris Or whoever whoever it is. They're quite forgiving if all that's going on there is football. And then the Rugby arrived, and then there was international rugby, and because stage are such enormous pieces of real estate, and they are dark for 90 percent of the year. But they're still costing money to the owners to try and keep them running on a on a on a daily basis. And so they were looking at I think about 5 years for 4 years ago, having stadium bold constant events there, and it required engagement with the police, engagement environment health officer, the... To be fair to the club is that they've got a very good relationship with their local neighbors, and they wanted 5 concerts stadium involved concerts there a year. And because they host Rugby football, and they res received the pitch every year. You have a very narrow window. You got a window of about 2 weeks, 2 or 3 weeks from the end of the season when you have to start res seeding the pitch. In which to hold these concerts, which happens over the start of the summer and also the school holidays when people's windows are open. There's a multitude of challenges. And it... I wouldn't be telling the story the application was in grant because it was and they now have... There they have the ability to host 5 concerts a year. And I think for the city, it's a really good thing that you are able to draw, and whether you like the music and whether it's your type of musical or notice is actually neither here nor there. But they've hosted some very big names there over the last 4 or 5 years. I I think it's good for the city. It puts the city on the map the city, I think, when people talk to... My my friends live in mess live in London. So I Bristol it's got really good reputable... You know, it's there's there's good food. There's good music venues, and there were good bars. And that's sort of what the city is, my mates. I think the city's is name for. I think they're absolutely right. And bringing people into the city, not only getting them to go trash gate, but also to go to surrounding areas. And spending money in bars and restaurants in in town, can only be a good thing... Good thing for for for everybody. And then last year, they hosted to be arctic monkeys, like 2 days before the tickets were due to go on sale, safety advisory group. So, will it clashes with Love saves the day, which I think has been just this weekend, and that's too many people in that part of town over 1 we can We we don't really feel we can support this. And that is where the relationships, not not only the relationships that we have with the local authority. But also the relationships that the club has, and they worked really, really hard to build up strong relationships with and police fire highways and transport really key for for a stadium of that size because it's not the easiest place to get to. And certainly with public transport and trying to find places where they could have a multitude of of caravan current car parks or or bus bus parks. Anyway, in the end, it it it was all it was all fine and the the state the security, the head of safety and security. He's a lovely lovely guy. I wants to know him over about 4 or 5 years. And I I said, you don't seem to get phased by anything. And he said, well, He was the safety security adviser for the commonwealth games in Glasgow, which I think was 2 years after London 20 12. And he said 30 seconds. He said the safety certificate for the stadium where the opening was due to be held. It was not issued until 30 seconds before it went live on the tele across the world or across the commonwealth. And said if that wasn't issued, your opening ceremonies doesn't run it. And so very little phases him, and we probably is the right person in the right place at at the right time, But the the point about all of that, is that it's about relationships. And you have large stadiums like that. You've got, lion and then at the other end of the scale, and I'm not going to tell you where it is, but it's not in Bristol, but we have the client to is having their license reviewed. There was an issue in their premises, the night of the Tyson Fury. And I think some of the punt has took it into their hands to recreate the Tyson and fury fight out on the on on the street outside. And the the police of given us some statements or, the notice of review the license is currently suspended and perhaps a good example of had had we been involved a little bit earlier we might have been able to keep the premises open, but as it is, we've now got involved in trying to get this this, pub open. 1 of the statements from the police said there was a sled hammer in the men's loop. Which is not a good look. And so I said to the clients, well, can you explain to me about the sled I'm immensely. So well, that's a lie. It's not true. And I said, well, well, why have they said it? Well... Because it was in the ladies sleep and not the men's. So that's gonna make all the difference. But there's a broad broad range of stuff we deal with. And I'm Scottish so I support Leeds United. So I've got very broad shoulders and I'm all up for a challenge. I think that, in terms of stuff that's coming down the line for operators. You who knows there's an like on the fourth of July as we all know and and probably a change of government, How will they support the hospitality sector nobody knows. If your members of Uk hospitality, they have a webinar. I just I was looking on on social media before III started speaking. They have a webinar on Friday about their approach to the general election about how they're going to engage with me the main political parties. During the general election. 2 things that, of immediate interest or imports, I think that will impact on the sector. 1 is tipping legislation, which may or may not affect you, likely to come in to force on the first of October we're a hundred percent of all tips that hospitality businesses collect have to go back to members of staff. The draft guidance and policies just being approved by the house of Lords, and it it was due to coming on the first of July we still anticipate to will come into force on the first of October. And the bit, I hadn't realized from I was doing all of this is that where if someone pays a tip on a card, and your... And the card provider takes a percentage so if someone gives a tip of a pound, and then they take 3 percent off, if I got this wrong and correct me, but the the process. Is that you still have to rec... You still have to pay back to your staff, the 3 percent that has been deducted from that tip by your by your by the by the credit card, who whoever you get the point, hopefully. The other the legislation, it's fairly old hat now, but about street furniture, tables and chairs, and pavement licensing. It was a hangover from the pandemic. It was a it was a an ease that was brought by the government. There's was a temporary ease that's been extended extending. And it has now become a permanent fixture. And if if you have retail outlets, make use of it because our experience of local authorities across the country is that they are generally supportive of the hospitality sector. And I think Bristol, although it it has perhaps been an slow to recognize the importance of the hospitality sector to the city and how important it is in terms of marketing the city think they are playing catch up now, and they do realize that, the hospitality sector has an important part to play. The ability to get new licenses, extensions to existing licenses. We have found that there has been a change in attitude within the city. And so they are being... It's not to say that it's open season, but they are being much more emo or more emo than they had been perhaps 2 or 3 years. Okay. So don't be discouraged if you think, well, it's it's the police song like this or environment health office is not going to like this or the residents aren't going to like it. It is always worth putting a proposal to the authorities to see how it lands, and you get a very good sense early honest whether or not it's fly before you... Before you actually make that decision as whether they're not to an application or not. And we have had success where we perhaps sometimes didn't expect it in getting extensions of licenses for clients, and it just helps you, hopefully in keeping your keeping your business open we're aware of the pressures that that you are under, but we are here to support you. So I I don't... I I've no idea how long I've been speaking for and whether I'm speaking too long or not long enough. You probably feel spoken for certainly long enough. So thank you very much. The dis general podcast is a production of Re media. Produced and hosted by Tim She, sound engineering by Ross mcpherson, Siri supervision by John Young. The executive producer is Rory Harris, and special thanks to you and Mac mcgregor of Tl.