Welcome back to my friends today a recovery interviews. I'm your host, Howard, and I'm an alcoholic. Sober since 01/01/1988, 1 day at a time. I'm grateful you've joined us. Aa recovery interviews is the podcast where alcoholic and members from around the world share their extraordinary stories of experience, strength and hope. There are over 150 unique interviews in this podcast series that you can listen to on all podcast apps or at aa recovery interviews dot com. Today, I'm pleased to welcome to the show marc p that whom I've gotten to know first by Zoom and then in live meetings at 1 of my favorite Aa clubs. Her first exposure to alcoholic Synonymous was at age 12, when she witnessed her father receiving his 1 year anniversary chip, but though her father maintained his sobriety for the rest of his life. Little was spoken of alcoholism in her home growing up. Like many Aa members who were raised in or around the program, Marcy decisions to drink were largely unaffected by her family of origin. By the time she started drinking in high school and increased her alcohol consumption in college. Marcy enjoyed the pleasant aspects of drinking, though she often blacked out and was once hospitalized for alcohol poisoning. With few consequences along the way, she embarked on a career talk full of travel and drinking. Married at 26, The issue of her excessive bus was raised and delayed many times as her functional alcoholism provided plenty of excuses for continuing to drink. By her early forties, the frank fabric of Marcy life was being torn apart by her drinking. Countless Vain attempts to stop. Were fueled by her desire to please others, But her own desire to quit drinking did not occur until after she had lost her job in marriage, Thoroughly beaten by the disease, Marcy desperation turned into a willingness to do whatever she was told to stay sober. For the first time she became accountable to her sponsor, who methodically worked her through the 12 steps. Combined with studying the big book, praying daily, and being of service to her Aa fellows. Marcy efforts to embrace Aa for herself finally paid off with a sobriety date that hasn't changed since May of 20 21. Marcy willingness to share her story has been a gift to me, I'm pleased to share it with you It's a story with sufficient similarities to be a value to Aa novice and old timers alike. Yet with enough differences to assure even the most skeptical listeners. That alcoholic anonymous really works for those who do it. So please enjoy the next 60 minutes of aa recovery interviews with my friend and a sister Marcy p. My name is Marcy, and I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Marcy. Hi. Howard? Correct answer. Good. You win a duck. Awesome. Thanks for being here, and thanks for participating with me on the Aa recovery interviews podcast. Oh Thank you for having me. You and I are sitting in 1 of our favorite clubs, Aa clubs in the city of Houston, and we just came out of a meeting. Which was... The room was pretty full today too. It was. And I've gotten to know you in this meeting over the last 3 plus years that we think we originally met during Covid. We did. Yes. So I came to the club. In 20 20 right before it shut down, trying to stay sober. 20 20. 20 20. Yeah. It was in, gosh probably February when I when I showed up here again. Well, Had never been to this location. I I finally was able to come to the noon meeting. I had... Had lost my job, had a lot more time on my hands, and Was not going well. Why was not going well. And I came here at noon have been coming ever since. I'm glad to see you on such a regular basis because you and I were talking before the interview, I go to different meetings in different places, but this particular club, I come to maybe 2 3 times a week. Yeah. And what's cool about is I get to see you and in at least at least 1 time a week since you first got sober. And and so your sobriety date, By Friday it's 05/23/2021. Many 20 third... So it took me Yeah. Took me a little wild. To stick around and stay. It's I'm glad you chose to stay. Me too. Me too. And you try to 8 before that? Absolutely. The When was that? So in my twenties, when I had first moved to Houston, just gotten married, I... Was out drinking and I got a D. Mh. And it scared me into the rooms. That was my first time in an Aa meeting for myself. I grew up knowing about Aa. My dad is in was in recovery. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So in East Texas where I grew up in Marshall, my first day Meeting. I was 12 years old. He was celebrating a 1 year birthday. And I went to his meeting as kid and watch him get his 1 year chipped and and and did never wanted to go into another Aa meeting again. So, obviously, you you grew up with your dad while he was still actively drinking. I did. As a child, but I didn't know he was an alcoholic, Meeting he would come home from work and sleep. And he would take a nap. And I just knew it as he was coming home from work to nap, and then he'd eat dinner with us, and I'd... That was it. I was the busy child, but, gymnastics was kind of my life back then, and so I wasn't at home a lot. I was training a lot, and and he... So that was it. It I never knew him as a drunk or, you know, drinking too much. He hit it very well My mom probably had a lot to do with that, protecting the girls. I have an older sister. So I knew him sober. I really did. When I turned... When I was 12 years old, and he had a 1 year chip. I... Our relationship changed forever, and we've been close ever since. No. Prior to that. You weren't necessarily that close. I mean, we were we were a close family, but he... Like I said, he was at work. He came home and nap. We dinner together every night Yeah. And that was it. But we never probably, you know, talked and connected, like, but I also a kid and Yeah. I don't remember a lot of that. I really don't. He went to treatment, and and he had always had bad knees and multiple. Knee surgeries since he was in high school, like, 14 knee surgeries by the time he it was 40. So pills were a lot of his problem too. But, they... He went to a 30 day treatment center when... You know, I guess, I was probably 11. And and they told me, my mom, told me it was for his niece. They... They didn't tell me. He was going for alcoholism. Wow. I found that out later. Told Did did you notice when you were a kid, any difficulties that your parents had between them as... What you might know now would have been his alcoholism? I I do now... Mean, my my older sister was... She was 3 years older than me, So fifth teen at a at a moore a wear age, I think and so she... I remember her coming to my room, a couple of times and crying because mom and dad were fighting. And I I didn't understand why she was so upset about it because I always thought no deal. They'll be fine. What did she what did she tell you about it? Did she did she give you any ideas that made you think maybe it was... Because your to head drinking of Yep. Just domestic wobble. Right. I never knew. They... They... They must have tried to protect me from the whole drinking thing. I I didn't know about alcoholism at all until I went to that Aa meeting, and saw a bunch of men smoking and clapping first for sobriety date. Did I thought, what is this? So you're 12 you're 12 years old, and you're going to your very first date. Meeting. Right. Was that went to and until? That was I was done with. What what did you think about it? Well, I thought it was a bench of old men who couldn't stop drinking. I remember even feeling so almost feeling sorry for my dad. Like, always, he's gotta go to this... Meetings. That's so sad and never drink again that that that must be awful. That's what I kinda thought about it. And and then he would say I'm an alcoholic. And I and I thought that you you don't drink anymore. Why do you call yourself an alcoholic? That's not right. And I would argue a little bit of about about that with him? Like, why do you why do you tell yourself that? Because that's not true. That's an interesting perspective to have as a kid as a an adolescent. And going into your teenage years to know that your dad is in aa, but you don't understand why he's there, and we're only expose exposure to it is this meeting of old man. Any Texas small town, you know, it's it not a lot of... Meeting options for for the people there. So that was his for his first A birthday. Yeah. Yeah. And. He's been sober... He passed away last year, but he died us sober man. He was over, gosh, 30 something years sober. I don't I don't remember the exact date. Well I mean, I don't know it was in March, but I don't remember these year, I guess. So what sort of things did you see going on when you were a kid and your dad was sober? That would have involved other silver people and parties where they weren't serving alcohol and that sort of thing. Did you notice any of that? I did. What I would notice is my dad helped he was big into the service part of the program. Mh. And had a great sponsor. And I got to know his font. I mean, this... His sponsor and other men from the program came to the house a lot. We we had a lot of activities with people from A, and I never knew how my parents were very... They they grew up in Marshall, Texas. They were high school sweetheart. Everybody knew who they were, and they were very social. So I didn't know who these people were. All a sudden all these new people were were calling the house, you know, and my dad's meeting up with these men, and and I and it it did open my eyes to, like, how he was helping people. Like, oh, that's really that's really great. And then the other thing, and I remember this, it vividly. He had quiet time every morning. He'd get up before anybody in the house. And my dad and I had that early morning thing in common. I was a morning person. And I would go up to where, you know, the Mark kitchen area and he'd be on his knees. With his bible with the big book and his he had terrible knees, and I used to get like, I I would read until my mom, dad's in pain. He's hurt. Like something's wrong with him. And he's on his knees and he's, you know, his eyes are closed and she'd say, no, Marcy, he's having his quiet time. Oh, with God. And so, and and I am, I was curious about that. We grew up going to church every Sunday, and I just knew him as a religious man. Not a... Not necessarily, like... This 1 on 1 relationship with with God. And I I was curious about that as a kid in high school, and I would ask my dad about that, and he said it's part of the program I'm in is I I start my day with gratitude. And and he told me and shared else a lot about it with me, what he did in the mornings and what he would read. And and, so that it was special we always because of Aa always had. Even way before I was drinking. Mh. I was always curious about how his relationship with god That's interesting. Yeah. So knowing what you know now about Aa looking back at that time, were there are other things in addition to the service work that he was doing that demonstrated to you what Aa was about without you actually knowing it until you came into the program you yourself. Gosh. Yes. Like what? Like, the kind of... Oh, he made a amend. He made a amend to me and my sister with our minister from the methodist of church. He, So so, like, that process, he he had us after school in a room at the church with... With the minister who... We were very close to. He was the family friend. And and we, we were there and my dad share to this that he didn't feel like he had been the father, he wanted to be and that it was gonna be different going forward. And if we had any questions, and I just was baffled. I just remember being so baffled then, like, he's been a great dad. Like, he's thought of everything I need. But why is he being so hard on himself. How long had you been sober by that point? Probably 6 months. I mean, like, I didn't even know this first year. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And my sister was a lot more emotional about it and and probably had a lot more to say about it. But I was like, great, dad. How far. This is awesome Mh. So so there's things like that, like, he was making amend. He was doing the service work. His morning meditations, like, all of these things that I started to notice and do and or and see were, of course, evident to me now. Like, these are the steps. These he lived the steps. Yeah. Yeah. That's... Amazing. And it really is. And to and to see it now and to know looking back what he was doing back then that you didn't understand back then. Right. Right. But it had its impact nonetheless the. Totally. It totally did. And it obviously did as, you know, my son, was 11 when I got sober were. And amazing. And that's something history repeating it So... Well, a little bit. Yeah. I I think my struggle know, my dad was a 1 and done type, he went to treatment and hand had to drink sense, and that was not my story. You So that hasn't been my story. But but so when, you know, when I went to my next day a meeting. So I had gotten a D living in a new city in Houston, newly married. And So there's a lot of time between that very first. Yeah. I exposed Girl. Then. Now when you were younger than that, and you you mentioned that you really didn't see any alcoholic behavior. Earl exhibited by your father? He'd come home and take a nap. Were there any other things that looking back now that would have predicted that he would end up in a. Not that I I was noticing. You know, I think that to, as a kid, I was I was in my own world. Like, I I've know this now. Like, I was the very day dream. You know, people please are and day dream. And so, like, I know this about me. And maybe I wasn't living in the reality of what my home life what? You know, I I didn't... I had great parents. I had nothing to complain about. They provided. You know, I was I was really into gymnastics we trained. All the time, 4 hours. Mh. After school, 4 days a week on the weekend. And my dad played a golf So he was at the golf course on Saturday and Sunday, and that was our life. Like, I didn't see that. I really didn't... You know, I wasn't home much. And that went on until I was about 12, and and I got to middle school and, you know, stopped. Pursuing gymnastics and... Was there any alcoholism on either side of the families that you're aware of? Yes. My dad's dad was also alcoholic. Yeah. And and I don't know his story very much. I... I never got to really learn that whole, but he he died sober as well. But my dad's at upbringing was not an easy 1. And because of his alcohol, he was adopted right. And his alcoholic father was very very tough on him. Yeah. So on that side, and, of course, through the years, we've discovered who the biological parents are, but there was not... I don't believe there was alcoholism from... Oh, there was maybe from the biological mother. I really don't. I don't know. And on my mom's side, my grand ad never, wasn't an admitted alcoholic, but drank a lot and never got... Never said did not die drunk. I mean, it it would have never dawned on him. And in fact, I saw him 1 time at a wedding. He was gu a glass of wine, and I had remembered him telling me he didn't drink anymore and I said, Da, if you don't drink anymore. And he said, I'm not drinking, and he met whiskey. Like, he didn't see wine as alcohol. Yeah. But he wasn't... He he wasn't in the program or nothing. And my dad and his dad that raised him were in the program. That's... That is lit... All I know about... And my mom never drink. Like, I never... They never even had alcohol at the house. I never saw alcohol. She's not a drinker. Yeah. Did she ever sit down and have 1 of those discussions with you as a kid and about about drinking or about drugs or any of that sort of thing that you can recall. Not that I can recall at all. That's not unusual for this generation. Mh. When I got to high school, we talked about it because, People started drinking. Yeah. And I would get in trouble, you know, if I I'd drank. And I knew that I'd be trouble if I drink. Like, like, somehow I knew that. Yeah. That wasn't gonna be accept accepted. But... Yeah. It's the I I hid every... You know, I hit everything from my parents. So I I wanted to... I was a very big people leader. I wanted them to to be very pleased about my behavior. So so when when did you take your first strain? I was a freshman in high school. I was at a towels, girls, slumber party, and we drank some purple fashion, and that's... I remember that being my first drink, could have taken it or or leave it. I mean, I remember the warm fuzzy feeling? Yeah. The light headed, the laughing. I remember all of that, but did... It it was not an immediate love of my life. So it didn't make you wanna repeat it Anytime soon? No. I also was afraid of getting in trouble too. Getting caught. Mh. Oh, I... That freshman year sophomore year. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't a big thing for me early on. So you went through high school without drinking or... No. Watch your drink. I drink at parties. Weed was around. I I probably tried weed, and I I did. I didn't care for it. I definitely like drinking better than we'd... We had, you know, I think about it Now. I really didn't like beer. I didn't what we were drinking. So, you, when we'd go get maybe da from S port, you know, we... I lived on the Louisiana border. So the drinking age was 18, like when I was 16 over there. And so we would go get da from Louisiana and that I liked. That was good. But my drinking took off definitely when I got to college. I got in trouble too much in high school for drinking. I... It was it was not What what kind of trouble did you get into? I came home drunk 1 night and got grounded and couldn't drive my car and And that I was miserable. And this is after your dad's already in a. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I did. I came home. I... And and I been drinking, and and I came home and my mom could tell. I I lied to my parents a lot about, like, where I was going and who I was going with if there was gonna be drinking involved, she'd... If they didn't like the people I was hanging out with, and I didn't tell him. I would tell him I'm going here. So I would get caught in these locks... Eyes for no reason, like just silliness. So I was never a very honest kid. And it... But drinking with it was not a problem in high school. I I was not at... I was even... I would say in every weekend drinker at all. So you were the. Occasional drinker, you enjoyed it when you did it? Yeah. And and the times that you got in trouble that your folks found out about it. We're talking about a time that's, let's say, 5 to 8 or 9 years past your... The first time you ever experienced. Aa. Oh, yeah. Okay see your day. Yeah. Did did your dad ever say anything to you during that time about drinking? No. He didn't. Mh. That's good. That's good. The reason I'm saying that's good is because a parent. Yeah. I know that there's nothing that I could say to my children to dis them except to get... Share my own experience about being an alcoholic, and I had to do that with my own kids at some point and I think it I think it made a big difference in their lives, but I also know that it's very difficult for people who are in na to influence their own kids stay sober beyond their own experience. So your your dad was... I guess he was pretty cool about that with you. Yeah. I... Maybe he'd he didn't see... I... You know, I was definitely more monitored by my mother. She wanted to know what was going on who Was going with where I was go in to call the check. I didn't see that as much for my dad probably because my mom has already taken care of it. Yeah. And so I think they both understood that people in in high school are gonna... There's gonna be alcohol around So... But they had to punish us. I mean, we couldn't just just drink. And, oh, this is 1 thing I haven't told you My dad owned a liquor, store. So 1 of our family businesses is a liquor store. And and, you know, it's it's a good business. And it always bothered my dad once he was in the program, but he had aa people working there. It was... It was kind of baffling, but, bothered It started to bother him later, you know, as he was so longer. He was like, just... It doesn't feel right or something, but it supported a lot of things, and so it it was not sold until much later in his life. So I had... My family was involved in a liquor store when I was 18, and I was, you know, a senior in high school. I we try to get the booze from there. You know, it was just out call was around, but, it wasn't... I don't know. I I never would go in the liquor... You know, I would never get in trouble trying to... A so your friends were trying to get you to go in and get them liquor. They really weren't. Like, we we were scared of that liquor store. Like, we've even avoided it because because it was... You get in trouble but. We'd know. Yeah. Yeah. Like, somebody everybody knew who we were. So wasn't gonna... We couldn't get alcohol that way. But it it was it was in the family. Put it that way. It was a business. My grand dad started. So I I went off to college. I I left. 08:18 and, never wanted to go, but I, you know, being from a small town and everybody knows you. I I really wanted to leave in and never lived there again. That was my goal when I left. I loved my parents, but did not wanna gold in a small town. I really wanted... To live a big city life. So I left when I was 18. We grew up, kinda going into Dallas as the big city, and I just loved Dallas. That's so. I went to the college, really close to Dallas was Tc. In Fort worth, that is when I fell in love with drinking. Is that a party school? Would you say? I would say it is. And was I would say it even shifted to the party school in the nineties. So I was there at 96. That was my freshman year. I was a big cheerleader. I mean, I did it. All through high school and taught it in the summer. And I did it for a job. I knew I wanted to be a cheerleader leader in college. Get to Tc my freshman year. I find that that, you know, the TTI make the team within a month, I went to 2 practices and quit. It was the love of my life for since I was 12, and I thought I would do it all 4 years in college and I discovered alcohol and and partying with so much more fun than getting up at 8 in the morning to go to cheer. So you just just decided to quit it up. I gave it up. That was the first time, my dad and said, well, why are you doing that? Is that because you wanna drink and hang out, You know, and and party more and us and I was like, no. That's not it. It's just... I don't I don't wanna do it. In college. She told him a story, but you... You what you knew totally new that I did not wanna put in the work. It's too hard. When. Yeah. Yeah. No. That I got in the way. That would have gotten in the way. Big time to I chose pledge Short, and and I really was meeting all these new fun girls, and and we were all in on Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. Didn't miss a Thursday Friday or Saturday night by freshman here. I I'd I really... What kind of drink were you? Were you a blackout? Drinker or worse... Yes. You were. Not always. U. It wasn't every night. But yes, I would drink until... I I drank until I couldn't, you know, until the bar closed. And then if we were going somewhere afterwards, I was there. So you had no self regulation. No. Mh. What did you think about that at the time? During college, I... During that freshman year, I didn't really think about it as much because I felt like everybody was doing that. Sure. I felt like we were all, you know, drinking like I drink, but I don't know that they were. But when I went home to Marshall for this summer, that summer after the freshman year, and I found myself wanting to drink every day. It was a... It was I was missing drinking because, you, Was home with my... Mom and dad and not doing much, and I got a summer job, but I I found myself go wanting to go get you know, whiskey to put in my diet coke at night. While it it's home. Oh you own? Not drinking with anybody else. And that that was, like, well, that's not... That's probably not normal. So you were pretty habit to alcohol by that point. Yeah. I mean, all through college drinking was... Was important to me. Mh. It it was... If it wasn't around, I didn't wanna go. So what were the consequence is from all that drinking and college. The content which has started in college. So I was hospitalized. Junior year. I was probably 20 21. I was drinking heavily. I was dating who became my husband. We're we're out and and I'm passed out. And it's, like, 08:00. And he's concerned and and he's like, how did she drink so much already? And and there was a bartender that he was concerned had slipped something in my drink. It's kind of the time when the... When... People were getting slipped, you know. Roof. Yes. So... And this bartender had kind of rev reputation for possibly doing this to girls, So that was his immediate thought. I don't remember the night at all, but he called my sister and said something's wrong with Marcy. I think she's been drugged. She can't walk. She can't talk. It's 09:00. What what do we do and he's told... She's said, well, we've probably got take her to the hospital, said they did. Was no drugs found in my body, and my alcohol level is neuro coma. So my parents were called, and they came up to Fort worth, and that was the first time they were concerned. That that incident started their... And questioning my drinking behavior, and me starting to hide it. What was that feeling like when they came in the room and saw you? Oh, I'm I thought this is all a mistake. You guys have labor over reacted. I... You know, I hadn't eaten all day. Yeah. The alcohol, I really, you know, I really still think something was put in my drink, you know, all the otherwise, you're you're telling and and and they were like, well, I don't see any of your other friends. You know, everybody drinks Yeah. Shot and... So they weren't buying the lie where they. Oh No. No. Your dad probably saw right through it to sydney me. Yeah. Yeah. They asked me if I was drinking daily, Marcy did, do you black out every time you drink. Of course, I'm no. No. This never up. This is never happened. Yeah. So the lies got started. They continued, and and I really did start to try to control this thing. Like, okay. I can't get sloppy. This is not working out. I gotta that's tough. Slow. We'll be right back. My friends, if you're enjoying Aa recovery interviews, I invite you to check out my latest audio book, alcoholic anonymous, The story of how more than 100 men have recovered from alcoholism. This is the word for word covered to cover reading of the first edition of the big book published in 19 39. It's a relaxing yet meaningful and engaging way to listen to the big book anytime, any place. Book Have a free listen at audible, itunes or Amazon. While you're there, search for my other audiobook, lost stories of the big book. 30 original stories from the first and or second editions missing from the third and fourth editions of alcoholic anonymous. It's also available from Amazon as a Kindle or in paper back if you'd like to read along. You're going to love it. And we're back. The question is about your your boyfriend at the time who eventually became your husband. How did your drinking change as a result of that real relationship or did it stay the same, and he was just added to the party? We did party together. I always... My drinking was always... An issue with him. My relationship with my girlfriends changed. I spent a lot more time with him. Yeah. I understandable. Yeah. And so... And we drank together, and I always drink him every time. So he wanted to slow down or stop at some point. I don't wouldn't say that, but he couldn't understand why I would have to get so drunk. And and it would... It was a question that that carried through? Like, why do you have to drink so much? I drink before I saw him and and then, you know, he would think my fur my first drink with him was my first drink. Yeah. He didn't like to drink his much as I did. It was always more important for me whenever we were together. Like Well, let's get a bottle of wine, or we're gonna watch a movie at your house. Let's get a bottle of wine. I always had to have alcohol. So you mentioned that there were some... That that was an issue between you. And him... We're talking about the years between, let's say, 22 23, and whenever it was you guys got married, and then that pre proceeds Aa by how many years. Let's see. So I was 26 when I got my first seat... My only for and only D and went to Aa, and then we got married at 25. So... But we were together since I was 19. So 19 to 25 years old, and then my first Day a meeting here was 26. Okay. So you were 26. Mh. When you went to that first. Yeah. Aa meeting. Yeah. And he was he was not with me. When I got arrested, He was already home that night, I stayed at the bars to keep drinking. Mh. And... With other friends or by yourself? No. With other friends, and I took a friend home and then got pulled over on the way home by myself to... Then they arrested me as they should have. I was driving in a blackout. Did they do a breath at the scene? I'd refused the breath fertilizer, but they did a roadside test and and that is sufficient? That was efficient. They took me in. What did that situation look like when you got to the police station and and everything else What were you thinking at the time? It was terrible bowl. I was horrified in more fear than I've ever been in in my life at that moment. Yeah. Not knowing what's gonna happen. Right. Not knowing what's gonna happen, just awful Who was the first person you called? My husband. Your husband. I called my husband first. And you guys been married a year. Not even problem even a year and you're getting arrested for D? Yeah. When you went to the police station, did they put you in jail for the night? Yes. That will they take you out to a women's holding facility Facility. Yeah. The the transportation from downtown because they take you downtown as a woman to book you, but then they take you out to this other facility that's not anywhere near downtown, It's a women's holding facility. And then if you're there for 24 hours, then they take you to back downtown and to county or something. So I was downtown, and this officer tells me that I can make a call before I go, and I called my husband and told him what was happening. I don't remember how that call went, but I do believe you woke up, I, it was like, 2 or 3 in the morning. And he's the 1 that came to get me out the next day. What happened on the way to the women's holding facility I got I was in so much fear and in an alcoholic haze and craziness that I... Okay. So so, I was handcuffed in the back seat, and I'm asking the police off sir who's telling me... Because I didn't recognize anywhere I was going and and I'm asking him where you taking me? You said 8 miles. It's been longer. And, the the officer wouldn't answer me. And so I shi and started kicking my way out of the cup car. Window. I did all the way. I didn't know that. Yeah. I did. It's okay. I don't... You know, my parent, my mom might hear this. So she she was not like me just sharing that everywhere. Oh, okay. Well, I didn't realize that that but No It's fine. The thing about that story that gets me is that you... They had to switch you to another cop car. Because I because I did kick it all the way out. Yeah. And that yank the cop who you or in the? Yeah. Yeah. Did they kinda go? He went. Pulled all over and wrestled me to the... Oh, no. Yeah was terrible and I had have handcuffs on, and, yeah. Was he's like, kicked it out and was trying... I mean, I kept... After this whole thing, I kept waiting to see myself on the Tv show kicked box. You know? I was... And and I was horrible that really did. That was the beginning of, like, I'm not drinking anymore that terrible And yeah. So I I barely made it, like, my legs were cut up and because I saved the window out the car. Yes. That's wild. That's how my bad. I want out of there. Well, I can determined that. I imagine if you were doing that you weren't buckled in. Right? I didn't... I don't think On there I was not back I was paycheck that. So I was trying to shi me my way out of a moving car car. It makes sense the the jump doesn't it. I mean, yeah. That's how messed up I was. And this is at 26 years old, and they pull over and and another officer arrives, and they took... Me to the Macau holding facility where hours later, from my husband came to get me. So you were freaking out I was out... Take Must made that must have freaked the cop too. It did. Wild woman in the back backseat seat. Wild the woman. And you know... Still to this stay. It's a it's a haze of what was going on, but I was charged with the D. Yeah. And that was it. And Court was awful. I... You know, you go for almost a year and you have to do the community service and they take your license then. I mean, all the things after the probation, it comes off your record and it got me into my first day Meeting. So you were sentenced, like, a lot of people off in Rf. Or Dui wise or D, or Pi i's. You were sentenced to Aa to x number of meetings. Did you have to get a paper signed. I believe I did. Mh. A paper sign. I had to take some sort of drunk driving course. Yeah. That was 6 weeks long. I... You know, I had to do a lot of things to check a lot of boxes. But but I don't remember having to get an Aa paper signed very long or very very much Pretty short term yeah punishment Yeah. What were you thinking when you were sitting in those Aa meeting? Well, I went to the first 1, so you you remember of my my first day, meaning, when you were 12. When I was 12, And so I go... I find the club, and I walk in there, and I was almost relieved because I saw girls there, my age. I saw... You know, it was just like a mixed crap, there were tons of people there. And I was like, well, oh, wow. Okay. And a friend of mine, it was kind of a god thing, a friend of mine that I had been in college with, who I knew, but we didn't hang out a lot. Was in the rooms and 2 years sober. Oh, wow. So she pulls me aside, you know, tells me... Erin he's gonna be k. And I was geared sober at that time in my life because I have a going to court and I never wanted to go to Jail again. Houston texas was like, I was I was scared. And then when I saw her at that first meeting, and she was So happy and cute and fun, still without alcohol. And I was like, well, she's fun. So I I clicked to her and followed her around, like, a little puppy dog. And she said, well, this isn't the meeting in town. I wanna take you to other meetings if you wanna go and she, and I met her at various meetings, oliver her town and she kind of broke the Aa for me, if you will. And and I really, you know, I really appreciate that. When you were still pretty young at this point. Yeah. 26. In 26, and you go into your first a a meeting? Mh. How long did that last? Well, I stayed sober longer than I stayed going to Aa. 20 Really? Yeah. III was having really good results, not drinking. I got a better... I got a job. Mh. A job I let. I felt better. I slept better. I looked better. My... The home life was better. You know, everything was better. So I just but meetings, I did not love. The woman that was helping me, like, she was really involved in A, and I just didn't ever find myself. Really involved or working the steps. And what was your relationship with your dad like... Oh, exciting. It got exciting. You got it exciting. While you were... You were in the program. He's in the program. Yes. The 2 of you could speak the same language? Yes. What was that like? Well, I think for him, it was probably like, working with a Po or something. Pretty hopeful in it. Yes. Like the energy behind it was very hopeful, exciting, you know, just I think there was relief. So... But he wanted for you what he had. But you didn't want from him what you had. Well, yeah. He wanted for me what what he had, but I didn't I didn't want. How he got it. Like, you know, like that, I really didn't understand like, why I had to do Aa. When I was I was doing just fine. Not drinking. So you did just fine You did just fine for a while 8. Yeah. How long did you stay sober that kind. I I don't remember but it was at least until the coordinates were over, and and I had this new job. So it was probably about a year, and I started drinking again. I started drinking again and did not have the consequences like, before right away. So so it was working out. Yeah. So you became a functional alcoholic. Right. Right. Yeah. What was that like? Not as much fun, but I definitely wanted to be drinking again. We were in the time in our life where a lot of our friends were getting married, so we were going to fun places, and and I wanted to be drinking at every place I went. And even work required me to travel all the time. To really fun places and nice dinners and and I wanted to drink at those places. So you could drink on the company dime. Right. And you were traveling, so you could drink in airplanes, hotels Hotels? Yes. Wow, that's an ideal. Set up for an alcoholic in? It was. Did you ever get out of hand? Oh, yeah. In what ways. Unable to go to work the next day because I'm so hung. Set so missing work. I didn't ever have another consequence like a D, so it was all manageable. But but I was lying. I was lying to people. I was telling my mom and dad I wasn't drinking still. So so the lie was getting tough. And people who aren't problem drinking don't have to tell people that they're not drinking. Right? They don't. No. They don't. It's so it's so obvious and right. No. Yeah. So so your husband knew that they're you were drinking, even though you were denying it, The folks knew that you were probably drinking, everybody knew except to the... Extent that you didn't wanna admit it. Right. So how long did that get why? Well, I I had my son during all that... To so I got pregnant with my son in 2009. And so so it it lasted for a good 5 07:10 years. This often on drinking. Did you stop drinking while you were pregnant? Mostly. I was very sick when I was pregnant. But I did have wine. The what I would tell myself is that that... That's okay. People used to drink when when they were pregnant, you know, before they knew that it was bad. And so that was the lie I would tell myself. I I was I was too sick pregnant. So I really didn't wanna drink. Yeah. It wasn't a... It wasn't until after. I had him that that I started drinking daily. It was the first time I really started drinking daily in my life. So here you you'd you started Drinking after that aa, court mandated sentence yeah expired. You went all way through having the kid. Yeah. So I'm in my early thirties. Was about 2011. He's 2 or 3 that I'm drinking daily. I'm back to work. I only took, you know, 2 months off. Yeah. When I had my son. So I'm I'm back in this cycle of of drinking again, and it started to become daily every night, to So I'd put my son to bed and, you know, I... Just counting down the minutes to to have my wine and and I drank until I passed out every night. What was your husband saying about it at the time? You drink too much. Why do you have to drink every night? This is a problem? You should stop. To the childcare? Default to him? No. We had a full time nanny. We were both in very high demand jobs and we had... She didn't live with us, but I would get home from work. And then my Nanny would leave, and I would, you know, have my wine and take care of our son, and he would to bed 08:00. Yeah. You know? So I a whole few more hours. So to drink and my husband can understand why I was having to drink every... Out night. Mh. And most of those nights get drunk. He and my parents because they knew it by this time I was drinking again, encourage me to go back to Aa. And I... I did go back to Aa again in my thirties. In your thirties. Mh. So was that at the end of people's urging you to do so? Or did you make that decision for yourself? No. My... I went. Because of people urging me to do so? Okay. So everybody wants you to go to A, but. But me. But yeah. So how long did you go back? About 6 months Chase months. And what was that like? Well, I got a sponsor. She was wonderful. Now, this was at the same club that you came in at? No. No. Found another meeting. We had moved to this neighborhood. I found the Thursday night meeting. I walked into there 1 Thursday night to make... I everybody happy at home. Yeah. And that's a good meeting dot. It's a great meeting. Yeah. And I I've found, I mean, I called a lady, the she gave me her card. I called her the next day. Because I had prop pretty sure I'd left the meeting that night. And drank, and she told me to call her, so I did, and I asked her to sponsor me. And I think I was torn. I I think I wanted to want to be sober at that point. I really did, and I really fell in love with this woman, and she was willing to help me and everything she was saying made sense. I knew... Like, it was, like, everything started clicking this time. Like I'm willing to do the work work I was not willing to be honest with her or do the work. That makes it tough. That's it. It's... Yeah. It makes it very unsuccessful. I'm sad. I got the result. The same result I've been getting. In 6 months. It III was sober for about 3 of those 6 months. That's it. Mh. Yeah. And... Tell you the task on that that she know that you were. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But and I felt really bad. And and even to this day, when I worked the steps this time, she was in amend that I made. Because I felt like, I had lied to her and Manipulated her, just like I was doing to my parents and my family, I was... Telling them 1 thing, I was not being honest with myself. And so... And I felt like she had, you know, put in this time, because I was telling her 1 thing and thinking something else. And so, I still haven't been back to that meeting. Yeah. And here I... You know, over 3 years over, and it's a great... There's... I know, you know, a lot of people that go there, but it's still a good meaning. Still a great meeting. And I... And and I called her and made amend, and, I mean, couldn't have couldn't have gone better. She knew. Is there a reason why you don't wanna go back to that too. No. You just... I'm haven't. You just said... I just have it. It's 08:00 at night, and I usually doing other things on a Thursday night. I get that. Yeah get that. Yeah. So where are we at time frame wise? So that's my mid thirties. Mid thirties. We're talking about the 2000 tens... Yes. Yeah. Yeah. My son's pretty little still the hit 4 or 5. Okay. So so I did the Aac thing again, just for that brief time. Had you convince yourself by that time that that a wasn't for you. You you had your own ways of wanting to do things. Yeah. Well, I had convinced myself that I did not... That with the job I had. Yeah. That I was not gonna be able to do A aa. What the people in Were telling me to do? Because you were so busy. I was was busy, I was traveling all over, you know, the country. And drinking was just all part of the scenery and Yeah, I couldn't get a meeting. I was like, I can't get a meeting. So Wow. So I'm never here. And I wasn't it. I really wasn't it, but there were meetings all heard the place. Not could've have gone to meeting. Well so... Take us from that point up to the point when the bottom fell out, and and you got into aa... Everything fell Howard. When I had gotten into aa again in my thirties and messed up up relationship with the sponsor who I really respected. Oh, yeah. I art I didn't wanna go back to Aa. I wanted to drink 1 of the consequences to go away, but they didn't. They got worse. I ended up losing everything. So I lost the job that I loved. I lost the marriage. That, you know, was the love of my life since I was 19. My son... You know, I that my family for the first time, split apart because of my drinking. In 2018, it was a... That was a a year where everything changed in my home life. My husband, was told at 1 of the treatment centers I went to that drinking had been such a big part of our life that that it was gonna have to be removed from the house. And and and and not that I wanna tell his story, but he heard that, it has not had a drink since. And he wanted that for me. Like, when I was in that treatment center in 20018, we decided our family's gonna say together, we're gonna be sober. This is a sober home. We're gonna raise our son in a sober environment. When you come home, that's it. No more. Drinking. And I went home and drank. And he has never drank sent. And so so the relationship ended shortly after... But he's down a, is he? No. Okay. No. A? Did A on for a while. Yeah. And would probably go back. Yeah. I love that program. Yeah. Love that program 1 of those things that kinda led up to the deb divorce too, because Does give people a different perspective on their lives. Oh, yeah. And boundaries and and, you know, detached with love. He worked that program and detached with love and gave boundaries and was very, I mean, stern with the... This is not a drinking home. So, when I would drink, he asked me to leave. So anytime a relapse or a drink was happening or he and he knew, every time. So Where did you go when you left? A hotel. A hotel. Was a very sad existence for a while. That's where my alcohol is a took me. I was not working. I was. My family didn't want me around if I'm drinking, but yet, it's the obsession, and it's all I could think about. It's all... You know, I would wake up every morning. I'm not gonna drink, and then I would be drinking by noon. Mh. But he's like, you can't be around our kid. You're not gonna be around our son. So I would go to a hotel and, you know, it's just for 2 days and drink and then try to guess somewhere. And I would end up in it, like, a sober living or a... Another recovery center? I'm curious about the frame of mind that you had during that time. Were you going to the halfway houses or treatment to change the consequences or were you going because you really wanted to get sober? I really wanted to get sober. You felt that way deep down. Yes. Yeah. You know, we when we did split up... And then I I came back in here. I came back to Aa. Last resort. Right? Nothing else is working. I've been to treatment, everybody around me can get sober, but I'm still drinking, which something's wrong with me. Oh, gosh. There's that Aa. Gotta go back to aa. So I'm go... I come back here, and and this was the a meeting and a group of people that told me. To come back. Like, come back if you drink. So I did that, and it saved me. I didn't feel like I couldn't come back, how long did you do that for? I mean, a a year 20 20 to 05/23/2021. Okay with months of sobriety here and there. Because I remember you on the Zoom. Yeah. When you had slipped and then you you surprisingly said, I need to get a desired chip or I drank. Yeah. And you had a couple months or something. 30 days, I think days. Like first time you get a 30 day chip. And how many times you get a decade shipped during that time. At least at least 3. 3 times. Yeah. But I even got a 90 day chip twice. Yeah. And I remember that too. Did You know, it talks about the insanity. I'd never felt insane until I look back and realize how insane I was. Couldn't shake that obsession, and then I wasn't doing everything I was being told to do. Mh. I wasn't calling. I wasn't really opening up to my sponsor yet. I was I was still trying to do this on my own and trying to figure out everything, You know, instead of just following instructions. I remember I remember the early days when you when we came off of Covid, and we went back to the live meetings was having the first time you had go on the live meetings here at this particular club. I I had started coming about a month before it shut down. Okay. So So you you came, and then we went to the Zoom, and then how how much time passed until you were back live. I came back to wouldn't it open back up Okay. So very quickly. It was a small group of us. Yeah. But I was here every everyday. And we were meeting on the parking lot out. We did that too. Yeah. Yep is to be away from confined space. Yes. And masks, we wore masks here for a lot more masks here as well. Yeah. When we came back in. It was the highlight of my data to come here every day. And, there Covid was unique in itself. It was being an unemployed, you know, trying to get... My families let me back in the house. I'm walking on egg shells. I couldn't wait to come out to any meaning. It was... It was the first time in my life, in all of my history with with the program that I was really seeking it. So you really wanted it by this. I I'm... Was starting to believe what y'all were saying that y'all were actually happy. This is the first time that Marcy is doing this for Marcy, not for the folks percent family. Hundred percent. Your kid not for your... I guess your ads. They're all a part of it, but a hundred percent. I have... I mean, I cannot live like this anymore. I'm going to die. So you hit your bottom? Yeah. Sounds like you might have hit it a few times? I did. Yeah. Well what was that like? Did you think you'd get back? I thought each bottom would be done would be the last 1. It can't get cannot get worse than this. It can't, and it believe me it can. Had you ever gotten to the point that you felt like giving up on Aa and just giving up in general? No. So you had a sense of hope. Mh. While you were wanting... Yes. This program to work. Yes. Big time. I never lost hope. I think the people trying to support me did. I don't think my dad did. He he helped my mom a lot through that process. You know, she's gotta want this. We cannot control it. A blessing for your dad to bring that perspective to the family. And to my husband and everybody, you know, you wanna control it. You wanna fix it. You wanna make it better or... What Or you wanna give up on it? Thank goodness that my family was involved in either Ale or Aa program and new other Aa members. Or Allen I members to talk to. Because the reason we're together today. My family's together today, and this is... It's a miracle We've been through it all. At what point did you get the sense that this was gonna work long long term for you? Mh, or could work. Long term for you. As long as you continue to do what you needed to do. Did you get the sense of the... The other shoe gonna drop and you go back out to drinking or did you hang on in such a way that you kind of protected yourself from that? I I think this last sober living house that I went to was that was... There was a moment when I been doing the same thing over... The the bottoms were were now, like, I'm I can't be with my family. I'm have to go to a hotel room to drink. This there's no way to live. Right. Like, they're consequently, I'm not in jail. I'm not... You know, I I'm not sick. I'm not having seizures. It was all like this is just sad. Like it... So there was a moment when I called in my sponsor, currently, who was my sponsor and that I asked to sponsor me in 20 20. Yeah. Has stuck with me, while I... All... These relapse happened, and I called her from the last hotel room, told her my plan, I'm going to go to this Sober living house that he told me I could come to. The the owner told me I could come to if I if I blew a 0 in the breath l. And he said you can come and we'll get in and my sponsor said, you know, how are you gonna do that? You're in a hotel room? You can't stop drinking, and And I said, I'm gonna lock myself in. I'm and I'm gonna show up there tomorrow. And and I did that, and I had... A deep breath, and and I remember her telling me that she would continue. She would start the steps over with me. But I had to be willing not to drink. Like, it was that simple. Like jen... You have to be willing not to drink. No see you guys who who's was just not No matter what. Yeah. And I was it was that no matter what, and and I agreed to that. And I told her, I said the car rides to our... My head is crazy. Oh, it's telling me 1 thing, can I call you every night on the way there? And, because it was, you know, a little bit of a drive, and and so she answered the phone every night, and we talked for 30 minutes while I drove out to this sober living house every night I started doing something different than I had done before. Yeah. What were you doing during the today? Were you working at this point? I was... So coming to meetings and, trying to help my family business. So so my husband has a family business. He's started, and I had helped him during my bout of sobriety, and so I was doing that. Okay. So how long did you live out in this sober living? 42 days. I think... I think it was exactly 42. Would you consider that an integral part of your sobriety or or getting sober. Staying so than those days. Yeah. Because because I needed a safe place to to stay. And this environment at this particular sober living was safe. The women there wanted to be sober. That was the first time I I'd experienced that. It was smaller. There were not a lot of people there, and, the women were serious. And so that first was helpful. But then I also had the time in my day to meet with my sponsor. We met once or twice a week, work the steps. We started doing other things like listening to Joe and Charlie tape. Yeah. With the steps, and, that was how we work the steps and we... You know, within 42 days, I'm making him amend to my husband, my son, with my with my therapist, I was also seeing a therapist. I I put it all in. At all the work. Every day, I woke up this program. So you went in. All in. Tell me about your spiritual life at this point. I I prayed all the time. My spiritual life is very different today. I like, I just feel like there's been so much shift, I was praying praying with such intent to be sober. Like, please take the obsessed shift like, just. And then, you know, I was told to give thanks to god at night when I had us sober day. So I practiced that and I practiced the third step prayer daily. So my prayer life was there, was it as meaningful as it is now no. But because I was it was stressed. I was just like I can imagine. Stressed out. Yeah. Trying to fix everything but but knowing... And my therapist too help me, I mean, there was a time when I... I really believe that God could fix the drinking problem. But I didn't know if God could fix the home life. Because there was a lot of trust broken. Oh, yeah. And damage done. And my therapist is, like, well doubt you believe that got it power bigger than yourself. I mean, if he can fix that, Sounds like the part of a spiritual awakening to me. It was. My spiritual awakening was gradual. This program, the steps. My spiritual life, it... I'm a different person. Yeah. I can validate that and verify that because I was in the berry rooms that you were getting sober and staying sober here at this particular club, and I happen to know your sponsor. Yes. Right? Yeah. And to straight. And and seeing the quality of her sobriety. Oh, yeah. As part of a reflect action on you, I think is very cool because you you see somebody sponsoring somebody and they start to change. The sponsor starts to change. Oh, yeah. And and what what I noticed about it was that it seemed like her program was becoming more vital as a part... As a as a, you know, by sponsoring it, we are talking about the same person. Yes. Absolutely. Sit behind her every day, and Mean, thing Well, I mean, I think she's the first person in my life that I've really been a hundred percent honest with. Yeah. Besides my husband. You know, like, it it opened me I, like, it broke something inside of me. And it it was like freedom. Yeah. There's another member in here that he and I talk about the freedom. Yeah. The freedom that that we find is I don't take it for granted 1 single day, Howard, that I talk a lot about gratitude when I share. It's... I I wouldn't be here. Like, I wouldn't have any of the things. Any of the things that I have today without alcoholic anonymous, the 12 steps and the people in the room... The support has been. Well, and the support is there because year because you're part of it. When you come into Aa, to get the support, you have to be support a, which means, you know, so that people can approach you without feeling rep repulsive or repelled or we happen to know when when when somebody is struggling and when they're not, you know, when to say something and when to not It's not always perfect. Sometimes we say something when we shouldn't or don't say when we should, but I've seen the change in you. I've seen the change in her. Cool. And I... No. I can notice it, and and maybe maybe you have to some extent, but I've... I've definitely seen it in her. I've seen the in her of sponsoring you. Now the next question is, you're working the steps. He got through all 12 steps. You made your amend. Mh. You're were able to come back home at a certain point? Yes. Now. Did you say you guys had gotten divorced and. Mh. So you went through all the paperwork and stuff. So Mh you got back together. Mh. Un divorced. How does that process work? We're together and and plan to make an official this year. Good for you. Yeah. God. What a blessing. What of blessing in our son is, you know, he was at the age where he saw a lot. He's 11. Right? When I sober up. And so I don't know how that affected him yet. We don't know yet. And I don't have to know because 1 day at a time. Well, people in these rooms have never been able to figure out what what keeps somebody from drinking or makes them want to drink, you know? Yeah. So I I don't know about him yet. But I I do know that we... The 3 of us family unit is the closest. We've ever been. That's great. The most respectful we've ever been to each... It's like, it's just... We... Our we bring these steps and principals into our home life. Yeah. And my sponsor is a big part of that. So she does that... To with her family. You know, I think we seek out people that we want what they have. And and I really always listen to her share, You know, when she talked I listen. The way she puts her family and kids and husband and talks about them and stuff speaks to them and engages with them is how I wanna be at. So at what point were you ready to start sponsoring other people? Well, I didn't really know. I knew that I had worked the 12 steps. I was coming to meetings regularly. Mh. So I knew I was available. I also know the part in the big book that says working with other alcoholic is our insurance. Gets the next slip or drink. So well I wanna... I wanted to. I wanted another women to feel like they could call me. And my my sponsor had also made me in the beginning get... Other women's phone numbers and actually called them. Actually called. So I felt awkward, but I did it. I have a handful of women that I'm now, you know, pretty easy to talk to and that's calling. So in my in my own way, I guess, or in that way, just reaching out to them, like, that was an initial way of me getting to help... Maybe I was helping somebody, maybe I wasn't, but it was it was just an active service just reaching out to other people in the program. So that's how I started talking to other women. Well, availability is 09:10. Of the game though. Yeah. You know Yeah. Being here. And being there and being available. I had 2 women asked me pretty soon after I had worked the 12 steps. It's to sponsor them, and I still sponsor those 2 women today. 1 of them, celebrated a year in March, and the other 1 celebrate 7 years. She has more sobriety than night. This month. She had been so longer than me, but she had gotten away or never really worked the step she said. So she wanted to work the steps, and so we we did that. So I took her through the steps, and so those were my responsibilities. I've had other women asked me, and we've started and I haven't heard from them. Well, when I notice about you when I see you in meetings is that the women all come over and say, hi you've made a big effect on their lives, and certainly on other people in the rooms. I felt it. I felt the love that people have for you. It's very... Strong in this particular club. Seeing them stay sober means that you're probably saying sober on top of it. Right? I can see that ernest desire in your face Yeah. To stay planted in the middle of this absolutely. And that where we have to live. Have to. I have to. Yeah. It's changed my life. And I want... You know, like, I was... There was a meeting last week that the leader was talking about wanting more and and were people who more more is more is better, and and I want more of this. Like, I want more of what I'm getting. And it's... That's why I keep showing up and doing what I'm what what suggested. You see how well you did in this interview today or Thank you. Well you're easy to talk to. I mean, I like talking to to other alcoholic. Yeah. I enjoy it. And we understand each there's a level of understanding that even though we don't have a deep relationship based on a lot of time Right interaction, whether There's certain things that we know about each other deep down without even having to outward know it. You know. It's like, if you're here and you're doing this and you're helping others, you're my kind of people. Right? That's right. Give get that sense. Absolutely. Yeah. I do too. I do too. Well, this has just been marvelous. And I wanna thank you for doing this. You're a beautiful person I love you, and you're just an amazing member of this particular club. Thank you, Howard. You do a great job. I've told you I've I've loved listening to these. It's right. It's help me with with my program. I mean, and know there's people I look up to that that I knew from here and other meetings that I couldn't weigh. Oh, gosh can't power interviewed them. I can't wait to listen. Well, it's been... A lot of fun. It's been really helped. Helped with a lot of people and that's far we're here. Well, thank you, Yeah. Appreciate that. Thank you. Well, again, many things a for doing this interview with me today, Marcy. Thanks so much. Forward to many, many more meetings with you and Me too. Our friendship growing in the future. Me too, Howard. Thanks so much. It was a pleasure you bet. 1 my friends, that's it for this episode of aa recovery interviews. I want to thank my guests to Marcy p for sharing her story. And thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed Aa recovery interviews, will you please tell others how to listen to it, and please leave a rating or review for the show, on Apple podcasts. That'll help others find us. Of course, you can listen to the podcast on Apple podcasts, I heart radio, Spotify Pandora, or Youtube music other podcast apps or tell Siri or Alexa, play a recovery interviews podcast, or visit our website, aa recovery interviews dot com and To hear every show, share your comments and also contact us. If you want to email me directly, it's howard at a a recovery interviews dot com. By the way, this podcast strictly adhere to Aac 12 traditions, and all general service office guidelines for safeguard anonymity online. I pay all production costs, and no 1 receives financial gain from the show. Aa recovery interviews and my guests do not speak for or represent Aa large. This podcast is simply my way of giving back to Aa that which has been so freely given to me. The next episode of a aa recovery interview on the way, so keep coming back. It'll be here soon. This