Matter how your race goes. It's... You'll probably have a good day on the bike. You know I've always said, like fun as fast and fast as fun. Yeah. And it's it's so true. I I think that's something that I've kinda noticed from maybe motors sport or downhill well, you know, those guys don't spend a whole lot of time. On their race bikes, but when they do ride them, they ride them well and they ride them with intent. Yeah. The... I think there was an advantage there. What you're doing about... It's kind of a blurred line for me. Hey, everyone. I'm Chris Hall and this is the downtime podcast where we're gonna be taking you deeper than ever into the gravity bay side of Mountain biking. This week's episode is totally supported by my incredible patreon. It's a challenging time in the bike industry right now. And as a result, I don't have as much industry support I would hope to. That means that the sport I get from Patreon is even more important than ever and helps me keep the podcast going. So if you're enjoying the podcast, getting something out of listening and are in a position to help out they're from just 3 pounds a month. You can join my patreon over at patreon dot com for slash downtime podcast. That's Patreon spelled PATRE And and you can find the link to that over at downtime podcast dot com. Alright. Just a couple more quick things before we get stuck into this week's episode. First off, make sure you never miss an episode by following the podcast. Just hit the follow button in your podcast app now or you'll find dedicated buttons for all the major platforms at downtime podcast. Dot com slash follow. You can also keep up to today date with what's going on by following us on Instagram or Facebook where we're at downtime podcast podcasts. And if you're hungry for more downtime, then you can join the newsletter at downtime podcast dot com slash newsletter. If you wanna help support the show and patreon isn't your thing then you can represent by gravity sell some fresh merch from downtime podcast dot com for the shop. Or by sharing the episodes on your social media. By Also, if you prefer to watch today's episode, you can now check out the podcast on Youtube at youtube dot com forward slash at downtime podcast. Love it If you head over there, subscribe to the channel and show the video some love via likes and comments. All the links I mentioned are gonna be in the show notes for this episode on the website downtime podcast dot com. Alright. Today you were joined by Irish and stark, Greg Call. Greg has recently moved away from a factory team and created his very own program. We talk about what went into that and how he approached put together a package to enable him to perform. Will delve into his 20 24 Endure world cup season, his thoughts on how the sport has evolved and the adaptations he's made along the way. I chat with Greg about his experience of racing the e in gi to get some insights into this new discipline and how it works. Greg has a wealth of experience in the sport and it shows in this episode with some great insights into what it takes to before. So without further ado, here's Greg Call. Greg Call. Welcome back to the downtime podcast mate, we would saying it was 20 18, the last time you came on, which is a very long time ago in the grand scheme of things. A lot changed but so a lot hasn't right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah Great to be back. It's it's been well. A lot has happened, but... Yeah, as you say, it's the same. Still racing bikes. Still still doing the same day today. So... Yeah. Same different. Still live the dream. And, I wanna talk about, like, the, I guess the longevity of you're career because you've been involved in Mac Barr for a long time now and actually involved in End gi from the very first Ew I think back in 20 13. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been... Yeah. Put a good shift. And I, it's a funny 1 because, like, a lot of people say that and like I think I'm on, there's only a handful of us. Like, that are still around. Yeah. And it's not the longest time, I think, like it's... Is the twelfth year of Aws Ed world cup. And I could compare it out to downhill On there's multiple riders that are around longer than that, but I think the interest and thing is how much the sport has changed and evolve. Through that aladdin and I think that's where we've lost the roller riders maybe because a lot of the... The early riders were probably, you know, blind racing style and, like, we're so far from that now. So I think for me, having come more from the downhill side, originally. It was maybe easier to adapt with the sport as it went? Yeah. Have you missed any events along the way? I've only missed 4. Okay. So in the first year, I didn't go to the 2 North American races? Okay. Just budget related because you were like. It's just a full private. Another money Yeah Yeah. And then I missed someone 20 15 through injury. Yeah. Made deer 20 19 through injury. Pretty good record doing it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty... We actually went through some of the stats last year. Tj j Smith. He's he loves the stats. We went digging. And you have no Dns f's. Yeah. I think there's... It's almost 80 races I've done, and I think something, like, 60 of them are top 30. Wow. So I've been... Yeah. Pretty consistent. Yeah. That's solid. Yeah. Real solid. Yeah. I wanted to talk a bit about the the development of of because like you say, you've had the rings side seat for that and things. Have changed a lot like and not even on a sort of consistent trajectory that really it's been like, up and down and different styles and sort of finding in itself. Talk us a little bit through maybe some of the specifics of what you feels changed since back in 20 13 to kinda of today. Yeah. Yeah. Like I think the the scope of the demands on what the sport is is really narrowed in because the, like, the first few years we had no idea we're in for. You know, when you would go to race in the French alps and it'll be too massive of days are racing and, you know, like, racing an hour in 20 minutes over 2 days. Yeah. So you're... In terms of the pace you are riding, it was a lot less and it was more about being smooth being consistent. There was no track walk. So that brings the level down as well. There was no gopro really, Like, cameras weren't that good then. Can cameras. Whereas now, you know, we're track walking. And we're watching Gopro. We've got 5 or 6 stages in 1 day of racing. So we're riding a lot closer to the limit now and the margins are a lot smaller but between riders for the racing. So, yeah. It's it's definitely changed. It's gotten a lot more professional and refined? Yeah. How would you describe, like, the key skills that you need now then to be successful? Like, what are the main attributes as a rider that that deliver successor at a current version of the interior world series or Ed. Actually, this is the challenge really. It changes so many even though it's still changing. Right? Yeah. It really is. And like like, you know, even week to week this year, like our schedule is changing a this. Yeah. Like you know, come last week, we raised... We practice and race back to back days. Next week we'll have a rest day in between. U. So in terms of your preparation, that changes it quite a. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Come, we had a lot more endurance involved whereas now we'll get a rest day less insurance, so you'll probably, you know, have another couple of percent to give on Race day. I think in terms with scale as an enjoy writer, learning tracks is probably 1 of them. Okay. Yeah. Only 1 practice runs. So, yeah. The more you can learn from that 1 practice run is is it can really help you in a day. Is that something you actively go and train and, like practice? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Know, without it being super intentional because it's kind of the writing you do. Yeah. Know, you go for a 3 hour ride, you'll probably ride 3 or 4 tracks and you might repeat a couple of. Yeah. You And it is something we do plan in that I would, you know, do a day train and try find new places to. Gonna say that's the challenge. You can't do it on a track you note. Right? So every time you would do that sort of work you've gotta go some way... Yeah. Exactly. And... Yeah. Yeah Yeah. So it is something we'll do where, you know, I might do a ride and ride 3 tracks and then go back around and ride them again and try go fast. Yeah. So... Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely... That that'd be a scale. And then... As well, in terms of riding, you know, being able to ride different tracks, different speeds, different trail demands. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's quite a lot of and bike setup and, yeah. There's hell every element kinda it comes in. Have the of the stages, like, as an average got shorter. Do you think? Like, we used to have some super long stage I we haven't had anything mega long for a while, but I might just be out of touch I think a little bit... Yeah. Like, the last few years we were talking about this last weekend that I think the longest stage in the calendar now is too Fruity in. Yeah. And that's about 11 minutes now. Okay. But part of that is how much faster bikes have gotten riders have gotten and trail building has gotten better. Okay. Because, like, Venue that when we come back and repeat. The trail builders would have done touch ups on the track. Mh. And, you know, little pinch points that would have slowed things down and made it a bit more physical and slower to add time. They might make that in nice corner? Yeah. Yeah. So then what maybe started out is, like a 14 minute stage over the years develops into, an 11:10 minute stage? Yeah. So it's kind of... Yeah. Which came first whether the tracks actually got shorter or we're just covering ground faster. And I think it is a challenge note for the people running the races is to give us a course that's gonna get 20 plus minutes of racing. Mh. Because I think... I know a few years ago. I'd heard that on average, we're we'd to descend a hundred meters vertical in a minute. Okay. So for 20 minute race, you need 2000 meters of descent. Yeah. So you're not gonna do that with an uplift. Yeah. So even just to get a course big enough. For the recent to be long. Yeah Yeah. It's quite a challenge. Because 20 minutes is the, like, cut off in the rule. Are they're trying to make sure the races are over. Yeah. Exactly. It's like mandatory, but I it's the guideline. And I think Everyone would want would want that. Yeah. You know, because we do want a a decent length of race. Yeah. Fair. So you've been at this. Yeah 13 years and racing bikes for longer. And you I think it's fair to say, like, your results have gone from the highest. You know, you've had some wins over the years and then you've had some some tougher races and some tougher times. Mh. With with that, like, breadth of experience that you have, you started to work out, like, why it works when it works and maybe why it's not working when it's not working so well, is there like, e finding trends and correlations and starting to understand your own performance more. Yeah. A little bit a it. It's it's an ongoing, and that's that's the attraction sport isn't that you're always chasing this... The perfect recipe. Yeah. For me, like I think the biggest thing is just feeling comfortable. K. Feeling confident and feeling good on the bike. You know, if I race day, jump on the bike and hop around the car park, the wheel nicely and, you know, you just feel, you know, those days, you just get on the bike and you feel good. Yeah. That helps. It translates onto to the stages, to be able to ride well, but, yeah. Definitely it's it's hard to find the the recipe because if there was just a checklist you could go through then... Yeah. We'd I'll be winning every weekend when we. Yeah, this is. And if you got... Have you found ways to help yourself feel more comfortable on the bike. Because obviously, time and testing and all this kind of stuff helps. But, have you have you found techniques to sort of almost convince yourself and your mind that you're feeling good. Like, maybe it is popping Wheel or hopping around, like I think I saw you in Tweed Valley just doing a little bit of trials hopping across the river on some rocks and just, I guess getting becoming in 1 with the bike at that point. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And I you say it is kinda convincing yourself, And, you know, I think, a big part of it is quiet quiet the brain. This and not having too much of a busy mind coming into racing, so there's that, you know, the mental performance side of us, and then there's hop around on the bike It just makes me feel light sharp and kinda, you know, as I would want to ride, but something I do as well, like I try not to ride the race bike too much. Okay. Because we... The hours we do, you know, on a weekly basis there are days where you feel tired or you know, you're gonna do and you're gonna feel bad after that. And you know, they they'd be days where I be like, okay. I'll ride the small travel biker or a road biker or whatever. So... Yes. I just go out and do the physical focus of the session. And. Okay. The more technical days of Like right, I'll get on the race bike, and Then, you know, when you throw the leg over that bike. It's like, I'm gonna ride it while. I'm gonna ride it fast, and then new kind of built good habits on that bike. Yeah. You associate that bike with riding well because you're not hopping on it like, hanging after an interval session in the morning or something like. Yeah. Exactly. And and there's some where we'll want to ride a tired because that's yeah. Racing. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. You know, and, as, like, when you have it set up for racing, things it'll feel really good when you're on and you're riding well. Yeah. And then you might get on it not feeling good, and you'll start to go how the bike feels his bike feels out, and you'll make changes, and then that's... It's kinda counterproductive. And, yeah. I I think that's something that I've kinda noticed from maybe motors sport or downhill as well, you know, those guys don't... Spend a whole lot of time. On their race bikes, but when they do ride them, they ride them well, and they ride them with intent. Intent is the key I think isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And it's that kind of purposeful practicing thing, you know, So, Yeah. Try quality over quantity. Yeah. But. Have you ever... You mentioned the mental side? Have you ever had any, like, support coaching on that side of things. You work with people throughout that Yeah. Yeah. On and off over the years. And then this year, I've been working with someone from the Apc, the rebel Abc. Okay. Which has been a great help. And it's... Even when things are going well, it's a good thing to stay on top of. Yeah. And just keep yourself on track, so if things arise on race day or training, whatever you have, like, kind of a, you know, like, AAA system you can go through to get yourself on track and get yourself calm down or get yourself in the right right mindset because the mental side of things. It's it's quite often overlooked, but it's something you need to train as well. Yeah. It's not something know, it's not like you just... You feel bad and you can do this quick fix. It's something you to kinda work on and build upon and and untrained yeah. Yeah. Do you feel you can train it away from the races or do you need the pressure of a race to to be able to, like, train that the the muscle of the brain? If that makes sense. I think so. I think Can yeah because there's always... With training, there's always an element of pressure as well. Yeah. Well, because you know someone else is gonna see your numbers that you're working with coach and... Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There's always a reason. Yeah. To be on, at least, you know, once twice a week even in middle of winter, there's a reason where you're gonna be measured or where you wanna perform well even if it's just against yourself. So so they're are all chances to kinda to train in those those things. Yeah. And what does that like? Structure of tool kit look like for you then if you're at a race and things aren't quite right, like, in the in the mindset, at what techniques do you use to try and bring things back? A lot of it is breathing based for me. Okay. You know, just slow breaths focusing on your breathing. Yeah. And that just kinda brings you into the present moment. Rather than thinking of what has happened before or what's coming next, year know, it brings you into the the here and now, which is very important. You know, I've had races aware of You know, I spent the whole off season dreaming of results and podium or whatever, and then I'd get to the race and I'll still be thinking about those results. And you're completely overlooking what you're doing right now. Yeah. So for me, like, I try focus on the process, which is quite cliche, but It does work because if you focus on stage by stage, turn by turn as good as good as you can, the results what kinda... Combat themselves. So, yeah. It's trying to bring yourself back to that. Amazing that breath work is such a simple thing and feels like, a lot of people just... I I think discount it because it's not got... It's not complex enough. It's not Surely you that's not gonna work, but Yeah. Is super centering and relaxing to just focus for a bit and slow it down. And I think a lot of us breathe naturally in the modern world like breathe too fast and shallow, Yeah. To take in the time to do that properly. And do you find that helps like physically as well? You... Do you think you've improved your breathing in race? Yeah. Actually, because I've actually noticed it on my Gopro, so I don't use to gopro racing, but even in training. Yeah. Before I could kinda hear myself. Tens and not breathing. And it was really like, it sounded like I was struggling to breathe a little bit when I was riding and now, I'll hear myself taking more smooth, brat more controlled breaths. Yeah. Which... Yeah. You know, you hear power lifters in the gym. It's all the about breathing isn't it. So you get your strength from breathing correctly Yeah. And, again, it's another muscle. To train. Right? That the use muscles to breathe and not, I think we we use... We don't use them well enough, I think a lot the time. So... Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And especially I think gonna a sport where, you know, we're quite red line on the car on the heart rate. So you you need to be getting air in. Otherwise, you're just gonna be you're gonna be hanging. Yeah. And and so over the time, like, has your enjoyment varied as well? Yeah. Yeah. It's actually... That something that's been very interesting for me because... I think Covid was a a big learning curve, for me especially, because the racing disappeared and all of a sudden, at least narration sensor was no reason to get up and train and it was kind of perspective change, and it was a bit like, oh, what's what's all this for. You know? Yeah. Because this massive problem was facing us. And I kinda learned to enjoy the training. And it was a thing from Kill Jordan and a a book from him. He was saying that, like, if a advice for a young person would be teach them to love training. Okay. And it'll be so easy for them, and it's so true because now I I enjoyed the train and like, I'll see a session that before. I would've have been like, oh, that's gonna be painful, You know, now I look at the numbers and then, like, that's that's gonna be really good and I reckon and I can maybe get a little more or whatever and it's kind of exciting to me. Yeah. How have you convinced yourself there? Like, a horrible session is gonna be fun, because I Like a lot of people would like. I know be there. Right? Yeah. I don't really know. And it's... I think it's the bulls afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. I think no 1 the average you're gonna be proud of yourself and you're gonna be pretty stoked on. So Yeah. It's weird. Like now, I'm kinda, you know, Chris come my coach like he kinda to hold me back sometime because I wanna do more, and I wanna just keep suffering and Yeah. You know, I I think sometimes I need to pull myself back onto the tactical side of things as well and realize that it's not only big watts that are gonna win races. So sure have the calm down on that side as well. Have you got better at suffering? I think yeah. Again, it's skill. Yeah. I think so. I think so. I think even just that learning into, like, I'm not so afraid of it anymore. Mh. And then, you know, the efforts have gotten more control as we use more power and stuff it's less. Just going all out and it's more controlled, hitting zones and targets? Yeah. Have you found that helps from a kind of, like, recovery and fatigue perspective... Being very targeted using power rather than just being, like, well, this is a 9 out of 10 and actually, you're probably doing 11 out of 10 without realizing it and the the session is not very consistent and... Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm more... Even more so on the lower end of things. So, you know, when you're just out for an aerobic 2 3 hour ride. Yeah. And you might, you know, before, I might I just been like, yeah, no. This is easy. So I swear it's easy. But you're actually... Sit at like, 300 watts or something. And now I look at it. Be like, no. No. The target is 02:30 watts. But surprise how dial isn't it Those kind of right. Like, yeah. It's a very low effort. Yeah. You feel like you're not doing anything and you're cheating yourself. But... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah And they're need more proud of myself when I finish our ride, like, the average powers. As low as it should be Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I didn't get carried away because. You didn't get chasing Roe or anything and exactly. Yeah. I'm so bad for that. Like if right the bike and someone doesn't say, hello. It's just like, right? We're racing now. Can you know I'm good out of yeah. I know. I know what you mean. Yeah. And so the the enjoyment side of things, do you think there's been a correlation between enjoyment and results for you? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. You know, I've always said, like fun is fast and fast as fun. Yeah. And it's it's so true. Like the days when you're you're just enjoying riding your bike and you're you're looking at the trail in front, and you're kind of stoked to smash that turn and Yeah. Pop off that jump and, yeah. There today is things flow linked together nicely and does work out to be faster. Yeah. And if you found a recipe at races to help yourself have more fun to to kinda of be happier. Yeah. I think I think it's a combination of things. You know, just being having good people around you, having a good bike. Being excited with the course, not worrying too much about the external noise if people are complaining about x y and z. Just kinda putting that aside and not folks not too much and just being positive really. Yeah. I guess there has been. Like, it certainly feels like there's been some negativity around the the entire kind of mountain racing thing. Is, obviously with all the warner brothers stuff, and there's been a lot of I don't know hate or online or whatever, like, there's definitely been negativity floating about and probably more so in Nigeria. I guess it's hard to not. In a way, not get wrapped up in that. Yeah. Absolutely. And like, I definitely have gotten wrapped up in it more than Should. At at some races. Paul, I think this year I've kinda with do my own program and kinda looking at things through a slightly different perspective I can realize that, A lot of the negativity isn't justified. Mh. And a lot of it sometimes reflects on people's personal, you know, if they're not having a good weekend or something it's kinda easier to point fingers and other things isn't it. So true. Yeah. You know, III think, overall, things are good to I think the matter will be complaining, but you just have to always. Right? Yeah. Not let drag it down. I guess. Yeah... And has the format shifting and changing over the years? Is that, like... Has there been a correlation again there with, like, happiness and enjoyment? Do you prefer a certain style or do you just love racing bikes? Yeah. Actual racing bikes be honest. Yeah. Like I Like an example that would be last week. I did the e bike race as well. Completely different format, but just as much fun. Yeah. It's just bike racing. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask about that because I'm not actually sat down with anyone. I don't think yet. That's done an Ee. To it talk us through the format as it stands currently firstly. Yeah. So it's quite similar to endure really. Mh. Same similar Liaison stages. Last again, we had 2 extra downhill stages. 1 of them had, like, some climbing that you could say was specific to e bike in. Yeah. And then there's 2 power stages, which are more uphill, but technical stages to kinda use the e bike for what, it can do over a normal bike. Yeah. But, yeah. The... I think the overall experience is quite similar. Mh. Just the liaison. Like, there was Wool liaison we did. In the Ed was just a hike. Okay. And what... It's a hike which kinda sucks, but then we regroup, like, 10 people, and we were just hiking for hour and a half chatting. Yes. Not exactly bad is it. So it's not bad at all. Whereas on e bikes we wrote us, which is nice to be pedal up bus because the e bikes you finish the stage and everyone just keeps riding. I when an e bike Everyone climbs at the same speed. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I climbed up at a loan with, you know, 2 guys ahead of me, and They just stayed the same distance ahead of. Yeah. There's no chat. This is there's no chat. Yeah. So as nice as it is to cover more ground, You kinda lose a social aspect a little bit, Yeah which it's a bit of a shame because that's 1 of the attractions of endurance. Feels like that's quite a big part of Enjoy a lot of you lot when I speak you mentioned that, like, the comrade and, you know, you'll become pretty good mates because you just start suffering together and Yeah. James on. And that, like, for me, it was 1 of the big attractions at first of neuro was the no matter how your race goes. It's... You'll probably have a good day on the bike. Yeah. So, you know, you'll always come away from events with something that you're like, yeah, that was that was cool. That was pretty good. Yeah. It's ee e. It a single battery day? Is they multiple batteries. How is that working? It's 2 batteries at the moment? Okay. I think it was free in the early days? Mh. Whereas now, it's 2 loops, 2 batteries. Yeah. And you'll use them fully. Yeah. Yeah. And are you having to conserve battery at all? Or can you pretty much go like, all in on it? Yeah. You can. Like the first loop on Sunday. I wrote most of the climbs in tour mode. Okay. It's quite low. Yeah. Assistance. So, yeah. And I finished with just, like, 10 percent about earth. Okay. Fair. So you do have to that you can't just like piece made the whole thing and... No. And there have been races where people have drop into last stage with no battery. Okay. So you do have to manage it. Yeah. And how would you compare like, the physicality in the combo event for example, from the ed to the Ee. Yeah. So it's shorter day out and more intensely. Okay. So we did include the paris stages but at 10 stages. So that's 10 times you're getting your heart rate Max. Yeah. And then rather than having 2 hours between a stage, you might have 45 minutes or an hour. Yeah. So you feel like you're constantly just bouncing between red line and try and recover and then red line again. So, yeah. It's definitely a more in intense. Yeah. Interesting. And that... There's... Been some talk around, I guess the sort of sporting side of that in the, I think for you, you were like I'll just do a bit more bike riding and this would be fun, but then there's other people that there specifically for the e ed. And then I think you can sort of compete in the Ed And there's a lot quite a bit of overlap in the tracks. So there's like a benefit maybe. Alright? You drain yourself physically a little bit. Mh. But there's a... You can kinda go and race to eat, d r and learn and getting a bit of a vouch for the Ee yeah? Like, how did you feel about that side of stuff because it's... Yeah. It's a tricky 1. Enjoy always have that balance between purity and, like, the blind... Not blindness because you've got 1 run, but, like, you're trying to control. Yeah. And you're riding and all that stuff. Yeah. Absolutely, it's such a big element. Trying to keep that fair. And, like a lot of the e bike guys raised the normal race last week because it was an extra lap on the tracks. Yeah. To me, it's... I think that it depends on the rider, Like, for me, when I lined up on Friday for Ed. I could do a full run in my head of each stage. Yeah. And user stage is pretty well from practice Gopro track. So I don't think by Sunday, I'd really improved that much. Okay. But I know that on Sunday, I woke up and I was retired from Friday. Yeah. Okay. So it's kinda hard to about the way up, which is helping and hindering. But then you're going all in on the Friday because that's your focus whereas an ee ed rider, it might be like, somewhat chilling, but getting the practicing and then a bit fresher on the Sunday I guess. So it's like... Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And even there's another level there was a ride going around with a media place on Friday. Interesting. Who was doing media stuff bus was also racing E bike on sunday. Exactly So that's... Yeah... I think there was an advantage there. What you're doing now. That that's kind of a blurred line for me. Yeah. It's a trick you 1. I don't know how they can please it. Yeah. Because you can't, you know, some people want to race both and they wanna go hard at both and some are gonna use the to advantage. Yeah. It's interesting isn't it like every sport, whatever, people will find a loophole. Right? It's mh. Even though it might not be the kind of sporting thing. It's sort of done everywhere. Right? Like marginal gains and little gaps in the rule book and Yeah. We see it in f worm. We see it in in road cycling. I'm sure and what these areas say. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, at the end of the day, to be fair, the top of the results sheet usually looks quite similar. Like Antoine ra who won last weekend, he didn't race on Friday. Yeah. Thanks. So, you know, you could say it that because he guys have... He had fresh legs or he was just better than everyone else. Yeah. So Yeah. There there's there's always these ways, but at the end of day, it's usually the best wins. Yeah. Jesse Man made this the same comment earlier this week that, you know, some... People might turn up and pre rider at a venue. But at the end of the day, it's still the same people at the top of the time sheets. It's like... Yeah. Because people that might have been 6 might come... T, but the top stuff the top people are still the top people. Yeah. Exactly. And I think among the top people there's not really any of that going on. Yeah. Certainly not much of it anyway. So it's a pretty level playing field. Yeah That's cool. Coming back to the physical side a little bit. Like, has your approach to training? Changed over the years either because of the sort of changing nature of what is, more like through experience or age. Right? Like, you can train differently at the age of 20 than at the age of 30. I think like, I I certainly felt that change. Might well. I'm quite a bit older than you. Yeah. Yeah. I've been tired of a lot this year. I know it's an age or just because I'm going hard here now. Yeah. Yeah. I think definitely it has. And I think, like, with the years, like, I've built up a certain resilience to big days out and endurance and that kind of things So could end... Like a base engine that almost just days there. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Because that's always kinda taken over. Yeah. I think, like, in the early days, it was just trying to survive big days. Yeah. And be strong while you're ill whereas now it's kinda more trying to be explosive and maybe closer to downhill style training because You say the stage are getting a bit shorter, and we're riding at a hundred percent all the time, so you you need that max power and that max speed? Yeah. Which is harder to keep. Right? That's like... That's the first thing to go if you have a bit of a break. Yeah. Exactly. And that's it. Like there's It was in... Actually, on sunday road around With a ago guy he was an ex road pro. Talking about this kind of stuff, and we were saying hey, you know, your Max power is cool. You can brag about that. Yeah. But it's you know, if you're gonna do a lot of 5 on, 5 off sprints, it's a fifth or sixth 1 that really matters. Yeah. That repeat power. Yeah. Because that's what In 0 is, you know, you hit a corner, you Sprint. You hit the neck Corn is Sprint. And if your first corner is massive, that's cool, but you need to be doing it for the whole stage. So... Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of that strength fatigue. Yeah. Do use create a team for that? Like that seems to help. Mh. Repeat power stuff a little bit. Yeah. I do it. Yeah. Yeah. You notice the difference with it? Or you kinda on it consistently in... Yeah. I think I'm probably on it consistently enough. That. Yeah. I just... It's hard to tell. It's a baseline. Yeah. Fair know. Is that do It's definitely a good sup for sure. And I spoke to your coach earlier in the week Chris Gilmore murray and he said you're an absolute animal this year. What would you put that down to? What's... What's different in in that respect. Yeah Yeah. I guess consistency is a big 1. Like, I've had a good few consistent years of training? Yeah. So now that, you know, when you get a good block, your your base is already so good that if you get a good 4 or 5 weeks training, you're really springboard from there. Yeah. Of based in France and the alps this year? Yeah. You made the move to An. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's helped a lot, like, especially on the physical side you know, having big hills where you can do all your intervals and, Yeah. You can really get the quality out of a session? Because where were you based before? In Dublin? Okay. Which is amazing and, like, I've always said it is actually some of the best ride in the world. Yeah. Even if maybe people don't there don't realize it. It is incredible. But in terms of training, like, it's just hard to find hills long enough and hills consistent enough. Yeah. And even people to train with where it's kind of around here there's there's a lot of good riders you can train with. And you're spending more time altitude, I guess, which is probably not not a bad thing. Yeah. At least this time of year. Yeah Yeah. Like, in the in the winter, you wouldn't wouldn't get that high But Yeah. Yeah. This time of your are getting regularly up above, you know, a thousand meters 1500 meters, which is where most of the... Ed events are gonna take place. I guess, at some level of outage, which you're not getting in Dublin. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Like last week, I think a lot of stages were 17, 1800 meters. Yes. You're more conditioned to that. Like. Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. And the heat as well in summer. It gets really hot. So that's not as an irish showing, It's good to get you so Fair play. Is it hard to stay motivated? Like, year after year after year to keep doing this because, you know, what people see is the racing and the fun... Sort of glamorous side of it and all these awesome shots from the races and, you know, champagne and all that jazz. But, like, the work's done in the off season right? And in between and that's the much less glamorous part of it. How do you stay motivated it to keep keep at it? And I I think that's where the... That change for me of learning to enjoy the training. Yeah. Not seeing it as like, I want this results, so I have to do this. It's more like, I want to do this and as a result, I'll get a good result. Yeah. So that's made it so much easier for me. Like, I actually really enjoy the off season now and the... Okay. The routine of just training every day. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's been brilliant. Is there any mono to it? Or do you try and, like, make enough change to your program that every off season feels like a little bit different? Yeah. I think there's always changes just coming as a result of, like, okay. In 3 weeks, we're gonna go to... Somewhere Sonny to get some good ride in our good testing or whatever. So then you'll have these 3 weeks where you try be consistent, and that will be different to to 3 weeks before because of the kinda evolution of the off season. So there's always something kinda new and interesting. Yeah. And you're... Or even if it's the same for a few weeks, you're still trying to beat the week before. So yeah there's always something that you're kinda... Yeah. It keeps an interest. Has the move out here helps as well. Right? I... I mean, I for a while, every ride gonna be a new ride sort of thing, like, even on the road, it's roads you've not ridden before. And, Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's it. A lot of rice end up being longer than planned. You get lost. You look at the map and you're like, just go up there and then there and you realize that climb takes 2 hour. And half the hills are a lot bigger, especially when you zoom out on the map, they get smaller, but... Yeah. Nice. Let's talk a bit about the the change in program. Mh, so you were on fifth Vinci for a while, up until the end of 20 23. At what point did you know that that wasn't gonna be the case for 20 24 Like, when did you find out you were gonna be looking elsewhere? Pretty early on, Like, I think... We could see the signs that Vinci were kinda changing in their direction. Mh. In terms of the bikes that are producing and selling. And the markets they're are focused on them. And then I think around June last year, we were told the team wouldn't continue. So pretty early on, but it was kind of at the same time people were realized that the bike industry wasn't doing so well. Yeah. And then general was probably gonna take the brunt of that. Yeah. So burst a bit than know. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So at first, it was kinda reaching out to Teams and brands that I wanted to ride for and mh. It was kinda starting to realize like, this isn't the usual year of negotiating. Yeah. So then it kinda put things in perspective for me a lot, and, you know, I haven't had a a tough few years and a couple years where I was kinda finishing races feeling, I hadn't given my best and not leaving super proud of my performance. Okay. So I was kinda like, right, what's my priority. Yeah. For next year. And it was to finish this season proud of my results. And yeah. In a position where, like, I'm racing at my best or at least. I've I have the tools to race reset my best. Yeah. So I you can, I kinda narrow it down to a few teams at, like, yes? I would like the ride for these teams. Okay. They would get the best out of me. And is that based on, like, looking at bikes and kit that those teams have? Is it based on looking at the team kinda infrastructure or the team via, like, what was attracting you to certain areas. Yeah. It's kind of a bit of both. Okay. So the bike is obviously a massive part of us. It needs to be a bike that that works well, And then the people around infrastructure around. Yeah. Who your teammates would be, you know, because, obviously, you want someone that you're gonna you're gonna vibe it and work well with, which to be various kind of most people in endure. I don't think there's anyone you... What that would have a red flag? Yeah. It seems a good curry. Yeah. So, yeah. Reach out a few teams and then that wasn't working out because they were sorted really. Yeah. So then I kinda realized I right, what's what do I need? To do well. Was there ever a thought of, like, maybe this is it? Did you ever have that? Or were you just like, I'm gonna make this work wherever? Yeah. And that that was interesting because I got, like, pretty deep 3 off season before I realized that that didn't happen. Okay. And I was kinda because then it was always just building towards whatever's is next. Yeah. And it would it would have been an easy time to say, yeah. Put, you know, I'm done of I've had a good run, but, no. It never crossed my mind to be honest. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Which was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I I love it like a, I'll keep going for a while. But yes. So I kind of figured out what do I need and, you know, step 1 of that as a good bike. Need a mechanic around me and good people around me. Yeah. And they're the kind of the main pieces of the puzzle because the interesting something thing would endure, like, we're downhill now we see, you look at track walk photos and there's 20 people on our team, like it's crazy and insane. Whereas end jira, it's quite different because, like, on a practice day, we're out on the bike all day. We're not in the pits Yeah. So even if you have a massive team, you're not really with them. Yeah. And while it does help, it's not everything. So, you know, riders are a lot more kinda, independent I would say. Yeah. Self sufficient up to a point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And even a lot of the planning that goes into a race week in a lot of teams, it would be the writer that does it anyway because Okay. Where the ones that understands the course and the practice schedules and what needs to be done. Yeah. So you know, I think I'd kind of already been maybe steer in the ship a abyss. Yeah. And with with teams have been on before so to now say, like, okay. I'll just take everything else My Yeah. Shoulders a bit, It wasn't. It what it was a lot more but not. Yeah. As that could have been. And you've, you know, you've done the private tier thing. You've done the van life version. So you've you've experienced it at all levels, I guess you know what it takes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And you've just been around race so, like, I know what I need, and I know what what happens in a race week and needs to happen in a race week. So it's pretty quick you can make a checklist that Yeah. That you need to go through. Yeah. So Yeah. So once I establish kinda what I needed Kinda looked around, see what bikes are on the market What bikes are wanna ride and kinda came to 3 or 4 bikes. Mh. And I reached out to the guys that I was and because that there on that list obviously, and straightaway away, Tom, the president who have I've kinda spoken to a few times over the, whatever contracts come out. Yeah. Come up, but it's never lined up. And he was straight away just super honest I'm just like, yeah. This is what we can do. Yep. You know, he he... From the outset it was like, we're not gonna build a team around you or anything like that. But Yep. You can ride our bikes. Mh. So that was like, yeah. Okay. Let's let's do that. Nice. That's a bike on ride. A week later, It I had I had the frame there and got up. When was that? Like, how? How early. That it it was quite late. Okay. Things that ran on quite a lot. So that, like I got the bike. I think the first ride was actually like the first of January. Oh, wow. Okay. Technically. Yeah. Yeah. But and gel straight away. Yeah. Yeah. Like the first run. Even, I've got a couple of clips from, like, my first run on the bike. Yeah. And it's, like, just... It was at home. I just felt at home. Like, it's just such a... It's an easy bike to ride. It's an easy platform to ride. Yeah. You know, when you're breaking breaking and the bike doesn't behave too different. So it's just the kind of bike you can just jump on and and right? And I think it's that platform like the D link Click even the e bike is the same as D link. Yeah. Race it last weekend, but I'd only ridden it 4 or 5 times before last in Way. And I'm not someone really rides an e bike that often. Yeah. At least a years past now in in France, it's a bit more attractive. Yeah. But, you know, all I did on up blake was set the aside, and I went racist. And and managed to get fifth. So, like, I think that's a testament to just how writ that platform is? And... And does it feel similar other than the weight to your race bike. Like, with the same, you know, with the D link everything, I guess, the kin cinematic is to some extent similar. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Was was it a relief then when you finally swung a leg over that, and we're, like, good. This thing is fast. We were all Yeah. Yeah. It really wants because I obviously had such a gamble. I'd taken on myself to do this. Yeah. And you wanna wanted to pay off, and it was kind of jumping on there, like, Yeah. You you would know pretty quickly like, right? Maybe. I'm off or... Yeah. You get on a good bike and it's like. Okay. Now we're I I can still ride a with Cooking. Yeah. What about the rest of the setup then? Because you got a number of other brands like, helping out? Yeah. Yeah. So Rocks suspension. So that was 1 test in the off season, and straightaway away I loved it as well. Easy to set up. Yeah. Be on your fox before with Davinci? Yeah. I've been on Fox. I was on Fox most of my career here. Okay. So another big change. Right? Because Yeah. It was a big change today. We'll do the same thing, but in different ways and Like the adjustment doesn't work quite the same and, yeah. It takes bit of learning. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But, yeah, again, the rock trucks, it's it's it's lot easier to set up. Yeah. I think the attraction for me was just that small bump sensitivity that it has? Yeah. Which for me is quite important. So what's she greatly, I guess to an extent. Isn't it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. So that was that was good. Hay brakes kept them S saddle wolf 2 components on kinda of a lot of the finish and kit, which was really cool and Yeah. Contacted them. They were super keen to be part of. And nice. The whole thing, which is really nice. And that something that's been cool is that dealing with the sponsors myself now. You kinda get... You see how keen they are to help and to be a part of it and you kinda build that relationship with them. Yeah. Whereas when you're on a team, the writers don't often get that. Yeah. You don't have that direct connection. I guess it shows you doing something right. If you if you ring up a brand and be like hey, like, use your stuff and they're keen. It's a good sign that like... Yeah. Yeah. You're promoting yourself well and that that you're a character they wanna associate with. Yeah. Exactly. It's a good reassurance. Yeah. Yeah. And then silk wheels, which is which is cool It's an irish brand. Oh, nice. Yeah. Which is class. It's really good. In Carbon Alley. Alloy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never gone over to Carbon wheels okay. Have you been... Tried them. Not really Not on. Yeah. Only of own small travel bikes I've was just seen a few races be ended by carbon wheels. So gives me the He b. And I like I like a a compliant wheel, and that's kinda what Alloy gives you. So... Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't see a reason to change to be honest. Me anyway. Yeah. Conte tires, which is 1 like I just started out buying them. Mh. Just to try because everyone's raving about. Yeah. So Bought a few in the off season to try and they were brilliant really good. Especially at home and kinda the softer conditions. They were really digging in nice. Yeah. So I was prepared to just buy them for the year, and then they kinda... We're happy to help both. So that that's worked out well, amazing. Tires is a big expense. Yeah. Are these days they can you guys get through of as well. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah. Wow. So put there's a lot of work to put that together and that comes with stress. Yeah. And stress. Whether at training stress or live stress and can only take so much. So hap did it, like, take away from your training in any anyway way Do you think this winter? At the start. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I was quite fortunate that it was a late start to the season. So I kinda gave myself until Christmas New year to really put a lot of time into this. Mh. And then I was kinda, like, write whatever it is at that point. We'll just crack on with us. Yeah. Because yeah. It was it was full on. A lot of a lot of stress. And I got first, I was trying to build it as a team with 3 riders. Okay. But, yeah. It was quite apparent that budgets weren't... Weren't gonna stretch that. I mean, it was putting a lot of pressure on me to be accountable for other writers as well? Would you have been, like, team manager in that case. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So it would have been the same as it is now just with a couple of riders As as well. But Yeah. It was a lot a lot of pressure. And then once I kinda realized that that was gonna be money out of my pocket to pay all other the riders. Yeah. Which I I wasn't really in position to do. I kinda knocked out on the head, and then that lifted a massive waste. And then, yeah, that was around Christmas time. So I can add enough of a package together at that point to be like, right. Let's crack on, and I can kind of flip my focus now into training. Really got talking to train and for. Could you see yourself being a team manager at some point in the future then? Like, was that something that you just felt you were gonna do because you hadn't been forced a bit? Or do you have a like a bit of a desire maybe 1 day. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely, like, my goal, with this would be to build it into a proper team. Yeah. And, you know, maybe after Racing could be a team manager because a lot a love racing, and it's something I think at this point, I know quite a bit about. And, you know, even as a racer, I still quite like to help. Other writers are, like, give a bit of advice here. And their wear cans. So it'd be really cool to use that knowledge after racing. Yeah. To to help others so that'd be cool. Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully, it can build. Yeah. Nice that'd be nice. Let's talk a bit about this season then. Alright. How did you feel coming into the first round. You feel like you were ready? Obviously, a lot of change, a lot of things to get used to and that. But... Yeah. Yeah. I did. For sure. I kinda knew that was you you can feel when you're going well, and even even before the season start, you don't really know, but when you're good, you kinda know you're good. Is it a feeling or is it numbers? Like, how you what's telling you that you're good. It's like things or get easier. Okay. I know you're training easy. The numbers are good. You get on the bike and easy to turn it on and go fast. Yeah. You're not fighting it you're not struggling. And I kinda had that. So I coming in. I I felt good. And, yeah. We had a good course in finale. It was good cut good physical course, which I knew would kinda suit my strengths. Hugely physically whatever everyone had to say. Yeah. Was. I anyway, it was great. Yeah. To be honest. Like, I... I'm all for that because I think Endurance is a part of the sport that we should have. Yeah. So, yeah. It was it was a proper. Tightly liaison as well right, Super hot. Yeah. Yeah. Really harsh. Tight liaison. I think the tight liaison maybe surprise quite a lot of people and the intensity and the heat. Because it hadn't been tight for a while. Hey. Is that why it was a surprise or... Yeah. Think maybe. Yeah. It could've have been. Yeah. And I think the physicality leader the stage is adds to that as well because you know, every time you bury yourself on a stage, you get a bit slower on the next climb. Yeah. And I guess you can... You can't really simulate that on your practice lap. Right? You're never gonna go as hard. Yeah in stage. So the transition feels out... Yeah That's okay. Can do that in that time And... And so that's actually an interesting 1 because so like in finale, we shuttle pretty much all the stages. So we hadn't written billy liaison same practices. Okay. Interesting. And that's been a bit of a theme this year that, like, it was the same and come last week. There was a lot of... We could use the lifts and stuff and practice and we did, like, a different loop in practice than we do in the races. Yeah. Okay. So then... And they give us 4 practice, they give us Liaison times that they're gonna use. Yeah. And they say to kind of, you know, check these. Yeah. But yeah But if we're not right Liaison, we're not... We can't check. So then we don't know if they're tight. And, like, if we were to ride the course, a few would probably time the liaison, and then we would say, like oh, I think this one's a bit tight. And they they probably would add on 5 minutes or whatever. So but if we're not gonna... Yeah. If we're not checking that, then that's how still. So... Yeah. Like, for me, I I would actually like to see it that in training, we just ride the course the same as we raise it. Yeah. Because it also, like, it adds adds advantage to those who have the support. Yeah. So, like, this year there's quite a few private around, and I'm fortunate fly of a mechanic and and people that help me so I can be shuttle around and practice but for some people, like, you don't have that luxury. Sort of are people ride on the course and practice somewhere stop. The shutters aren't being put on by the organizers then they're like, a... You have to sort out your own shut. Yeah. But it's allowed in the form. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think it'd be cool if we just rolled the course in practice as it is in the race. Do you think they're doing the the lift and the shut thing to help keep you fresh so that the racing is more intense and, like, more of a spectacle what? Do you know why it's going that way? Potentially. Yeah. If it's kind of always been that way. Okay. It's not a new. Yeah. And I think it's kind of venue dependent. Some venues... Yeah. You just have to pedal it because it's only fire roads and others there's lift some tar roads around. So it kinda just depends on the venue. Okay. So Finale felt good then. Yeah. Yeah. This was great. It was just 1 of them days where it kinda it felt easy. You know, Felt like I could just ride a little bit over the edge and smash all the smash all the pedal and Yeah. Yeah. It just felt good. And I didn't know the times for the first few stages. Mh. And after stage 3, it was real physical stage and I was piling up just after with Hugo Pedro. Yeah. He was a beast. Like he's so strong. So I said to him was just like, did just smoke on that 1, you go, and he was just like, no, you smoked to. I was like, really? Okay. And, like this is... So I was seated around twentieth. Yes. Still quite lot of writers to come. But, at least at that point, like I was in the hard seats were like, okay. Maybe yeah. Because when you watch the live, like time think quite often hugo be at the top for a while. Yeah. Because he's like, 1 of the fast during in the the the second pack kind of thing. Yeah. And then the the rest come through and pip, but Yeah. So I kinda knew, like, oh, for. The feeling is good, but also the time and is good. So would you normally not look at the times that any someone that stays away from that or... It kind apparent that day was just so hectic that we didn't have a chance? Okay. Too busy. Like. Yeah. We're literally too busy. Yeah. We hadn't we hadn't really rested at at all up to that point. Okay. Sometimes, like, I'll generally try not to look after the first stage. Yeah. Because quite often you can have 1 stage that the times might be really tight and your position is like t, but you're actually 3 seconds off. Yeah. Top 10 or whatever. So she might just glance on at c t and then get a bit deflate. Yeah. So I'd rather kinda look after 2 or 3 stages. And it kinda balances out then. So did you start to realize where you were in the overall kind of midday then? Or... Yeah. And I didn't look into too much? I just knew ones around the top 10? Yeah. Which I was just like I get. That's good. Keep going where we wanna be. Right? Yeah. And then, yeah. We had a stage canceled unfortunately, There was a, like girl crushed at the top of stage 4. U. So that 1 was canceled, and then, yes, stages 5 and 6 were good, and actually kinda got better as the day went on. So, like, I was fourth on the last stage. There was only 5 stages, I think. Yeah. For it on the last stage Hd man and, yeah. Felt. It was kind of wasn't after that was cool. Like, and saying, that was a top to bottom, just a really good on. Yeah. Crowd was good. Track was good. So regardless a result, you just finished. Was like, oh, that was that was kind of the race run. You you're dream of you know why you're just swinging off it and the crowd going well and everything's working well. That's such an incredible, like, stage the view. I guess you're not taking in the view, but like, the image real from that stage is in incredible. Yeah. It's amazing. And it's quite like it's quite a scary 1 to race because the top... I think it's like 4 minutes stage with a top, 2 minutes or just pedal. Sprint. And then it kind of the hill just like you come over a crest and it drops into the stuff you see. Yeah. From the photos and videos. But you're hanging. The crowd is going mantle. So you know you're gonna turn it on. And sometimes like, when the depend on how it's tapes, you can't really see the track. Okay. Because the crowd is so thick. Whoa. And, like this year, it wasn't too bad. The crowd gonna work back a bit from the track, but yeah, it can be pretty wild because you're, you know, you're really close to those people hanging nice. That must have felt so good though to be back in the top 10 seventh place. I think it wasn't Finale. Mh. Like, it's been a it's been a little while. Yeah. Yeah. It happened well. I think it was 20 21 tweed Valley. I was 8. U. So was my last top 10. Yeah. I've had a load of 11 and 12. Which has been really the annoying. But I think, like, the result was 1 thing, but also just to race forwards, you know, race, like you're attacking the track and your know, you're, like, come can't give me more. Give me more thing. That was a big thing for me. Just to finish a ace, feeling that good. The process goals basically. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it just... It had been a while since I felt like I'd attacked rigs like that. Yeah. Yeah. I was really happy. So coming out of that, like, all these big changes stressful for our season. The results there. You must have been feeling pretty confident after that 1. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I just made a all where to because, like, as I say, I took a gamble on myself, so it was kind of a it was like, yeah, that gamble paid off. And whatever happens afterwards it we've got at least 1 top 10 for the year. So I it's a success. Yeah. Poland. How was that? New venue? Yeah. Yeah. Poland was sick. That was a real. It's always good to go to new venues and I think venues that haven't had an event like that before. They always get so excited about it. Yeah. The crowd would seemed like it was pretty good there. Yeah. Crowd was brilliant. Support was brilliant and it was Yeah. I really loved the in injure as well, which was cool like they kinda knew... They knew all the riders, they knew what was going on. Like it rained for Most of the Race day. And the crowd was still just everywhere in the middle of the forest. You were seeing people and, yeah. Fair play to them because it's... Yeah. It's not easy to spend a whole day in the rain. Yeah. To watch something. Definitely. How did that raise some unfold for you? Yeah. Quite good. Like it was... I felt really confident in practice because the tracks are quite similar to home. They're, like, an a gradient where you're not breaking too much, you're not pedal too much, but you're always trying to generate speed. Yeah. So like that's something I've always been good at because at home, it's more about generating speed than not scrub speed by braking. So, yeah I felt really good. First stage had a pretty good 1 and Had Jesse. Starting behind me, and he came down quite close efforts. And I was like, what, I don't want him here already. Like, not, you know, it wasn't at my ass, but you kinda know what a 30 second interval should be And, yeah. You wasn't doing it long enough that you can feel 30 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. So I I knew he taking a bit out me. I was like, right. Okay. That's not exactly I want, but I think he just had a good 1. And then it rained. So on the way up to stage 2 it hammered what rain, and it really changed thing. So it kind of some people have been through the stage in the dryer, I think. Yeah. And then I kind of... It was just so tricky because it rained the amount that, like, it wasn't completely saturated. Okay. Some sections were, but then some sections were dry. So it was so hard because you'd be like, okay, this is dried there's good grip. You can crack on, and I need, like, hit a corner and I'll just be like, and you'd have a moment, and that would make you, like, tense up tighten up for, you know, the next 30 seconds and Need relax again, and the same thing it happen. So I kinda struggled just to get a rhythm going for the rest of the day. Had some good stages, but just not know. I think the level is so high now and the field is so deep. That if you're not completely on, you'll quickly just drop 10:15 places. Yes. It's tight as all. Yeah. Really tight. Real tight. Yeah. The margins are crazy. Like. I think now that was looking the other day, and I think the top 10 is spread by by, like 2 percent, which I think is pretty similar to downhill. Yeah. Sometimes, I think the insurers are actually tighter than downhill. Which is why considering the amount of time Yep. On the clock. And the things that happened, Like, the mistakes everyone makes, Everything All just balances out. Like last weekend before the last stage, Ritchie Alex Trudeau. Had... I think it was 5 hundreds of a second between them. So like they've done 5 stages race over 6 and a half hours. Yeah. And amazing but I done not I'm like. You know, there yeah which you'll say 0 like. Yeah. Well it's amazing. It's amazing to follow. It's really interesting. Yeah. Super Cool. And Leah gang was another challenge you went right, like, quite wet, slippery the race day. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it was just that kind of in between where it was like, kinda hard packed trails, but They I just had this shine on top of. Yeah. So it was just so hard to to relax because it just felt like your were... The trail was kinda try to catch out. So she felt like is an element of luck with the races when the conditions are like that. Sounds harsh because there's a lot of skill in all of you lot. But like, you sort of need things to go your way. Right? You're taking risk and sometimes they're pay. Sometimes they won't. Yeah. To be honest, I'm not I'm not a big fan of the word look. Okay. That's fine. Yeah. Like, I I don't think everything happens. For a reason. Yeah. You know, I think if someone gets a puncture and says are lucky. It's like, well. You might got a puncture because you had a rock too hard. Yeah. You know? It's sonya you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's kinda... Like you Yes. You can be on unlucky if it started raining and when you're in start case. Yeah. Like a timing thing. Yeah. Yeah. But I think whatever the conditions are, you just need to make the best of it really and, yeah. Leo gang, maybe I didn't quite do the best of that. K. I think when when it's at hard ground that you can't get your tires into I struggle, struggle to just just relax on us. And that, you know, that race we had a couple of stages where the ground was a bit softer and it was kinda more muddy almost. Yeah. And I went really well on those ones. Say that's that's when the the irish light up. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's it. That's What about combo I imagine that would be a sort of place that you'd quite like as well. Yeah. Comedy was sick. I think that was 1 of the better races we've had in a few years in terms of tracks, proper natural French, you know, not super built trails, but they still work quite well, and there's still support where you need it us and some fresh cut as well. Yeah. Some fresh coast, and that's kinda Alex Who does a lot of the courses. He's like, he's so good to getting creative with tracks. Yeah. Because there are tracks that have existed before, and I think not many people had written numbers. I don't know if we rode much of the actual tracks he'd kinda pop on and then he'll tape in a couple of corners here and there. So it kinda takes away any kind local advantage jonathan, which is which is quite cool. I think what made comedy so good for Racing was we practice in the wet. Yeah. So a lot of rot got cut in and then they kinda dried up for race day. Oh, nice. And some of them were in. Someone of them were really hard. But some of them were, like, class. So it meant like, by race there you could really push on. Yeah. Very special. Mh. So do you do you feel like you've got what it takes? To win 1 of these still? Yeah. I do. Yeah. You know, I I say. I know some people might hear me say that would be like, Come on, like get a grip bush. I mean, seventh place in Finale. Right? And that's it. And, like, fourth on that last stage, and I know that I do have the speed. I just needs all the ingredients to kinda to line up and even, you know, last year, I was kinda getting 20 it's 30 it's and now jumped up into the top 20 with... On a top 10. So it doesn't happen overnight either, So I noted if I can keep building on from where I am now. Yeah. You know, towards the end of this year, into next year, could be back in the Sharp end. Yeah. Yeah. So you think it's it's a matter of time rather than, like, any changes that you're happy with the process. It's just that you gotta give the process time. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. And that that's the thing as well with this season is that there's no not much time for changes. Because. It's tight. Yeah. Like, we're what first week of July and Yeah. Next weekend, we have our fifth race out of 6 for the seasons. Yeah. Pretty quickly. The season's is gonna be nearly over. Yeah. And that was gonna somewhere very aware of coming in this year, it was like, if you start well and you're in a bit of a good rhythm, it'll keep going nicely for you. Yeah. So, yeah. I think I think it's just building from here. Yeah. Pretty much. Do you think, like, riders like Richie and Slab mirror and Guess Alex Charlie? Like, what... Are... Do think they're doing anything differently or they just had a bit more of a consistent in program for longer or... Yeah. I think so. I think it's... The... Consistency is the big thing, and that's what amaze me is that, you know, race like last weekend again there was it was hectic. There was a lot happening and it was physical. And on paper, it'd be like, that's a race where people are gonna have crashes make mistakes up mechanical Yeah. Maybe bunk because it was such a a hard day, and it was it was hard as well. But just doesn't happen. Everyone's just so good all day. And which is the thing. So, like, there's no... Like, if after 4 stages you're in tenth, the best you're gonna get us a gate. Yeah. You're not gonna jump 5 place on the last stage or whatever. Yeah. So, yeah. I think you need to be consistently, really, really fast. Mh And do you think, like, consistency IIE staying uni injured as well. Right? That just being out and train and ride for a couple of years without any interruption from, yep. Time out to injury and stuff. Yeah. I think so. I think so Under our riders who manage that very well. Like, some riders come and go and injury quite often. Yeah. It still seem to come back very fast. Yeah. Jack, more, I guess would be 1 example. Right? Seems to be. Incredible at her. Casper Williams well his. Like he's had some of the earliest injuries and he just comes back the same speed. Yeah. Like, it's amazing. But, yeah. I think it's just Just racing well, training well and just trying to consistently move forwards for me. Anyway. Like, for me, I'd be kinda 1 that would make smaller steps over a long period of time. Okay that 1 that's gonna have a light bulb moment and just fine 5 percent of speed. So yeah. For me, it's just it's just build them gradually. Nice 1. So you're back on your own? You're missing anything about being in a team? Some things like, in terms of support, like, Of I've got with me, which is Brilliant. You know, we're traveling as I say, I'm mechanic my film. My girlfriend. So, like, on a... When everyone is there, I'm 1 rider with 3 people around me. Yeah. So I mean helped out as much as I've ever been, maybe even more, which is amazing. Sometimes you would miss having a teammates, someone to bounce off. Yeah someone to ride with during the week or whatever, but there's still... The cool thing we're in in enjoy is we're all friends and there's a good crew ends, so you're still you still find people hanging out with. But... Yeah. Yep. And upsides to being like a a solo operator, Italy, but you've got your crew around you. But I think the flexibility, you know, especially in the off season, like, if I felt like I needed a certain type of writing, I didn't need to wait for a team camp to be organized. Yeah. You could just book for flight and go somewhere or load the van and go somewhere. Yeah. So that's been that's been really good and it it's as well with the race weeks, you know, I can decide when I arrive when I do Track walk whatever. So that's been really good. Yeah. I guess you've gotta do your own kind of media and promotion stuff, but also, you're not then, like, being pulled by a sponsor to go and do something necessarily have a bit more say over your own time and schedule maybe. Yeah. Exactly. I like Tom Firmer. He's been brilliant on the media side. He's been so helpful this year with doing my Youtube stuff and instagram stuff. And, yeah. Know, he's super keen to to help with that and get creative with it, So that's really taken a a big weight off me because In Jar is an interesting someone 1, like I don't know if there's many sports where the riders do as much media work. Yeah. If you look at Charlie Murray this year. He's... He's on it. Yeah. He's anna. And Like, he's putting a lot of time and effort into him. Yeah. It's impressive. Same with Jack more and more Tv and Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So it's good to be able to get involved in that, but what I would happen to invest too much of my own. Yeah. Time energy. Yeah. Hey. You got got plenty of other things going on so... Yeah. Exactly. I wanted to talk a little bit before we wrap up about the Irish scene. I guess you... You know, you've been a big part of growing the scene out there and showing an inspiring Irish riders showing them what's possible. And the scenes I guess grown. And now you've got you know, young downhill riders as well like Ronan and ocean. Mh, yet again, kinda leading the charge and and boy up that, like Irish riding community. How is it these days? And how has it changed since you were a kid and started riding? Yeah. It's amazing. It's so cool. I like, the buzz coming off running the machine at the moment is brilliant. Yeah. Like, everyone's... You know, everyone at home is so buzz another, and it's so cool to see that yeah. Just to see how io air shredder doing well, and especially at down because you know, we don't at the biggest hills. And, you know, on paper, maybe it doesn't really make sense. Of course, yeah, The boys are put in the work and, you know, they've they've I've come out swing and haven't they. They have. So it's really cool. In terms of the scene at home, it's crazy. Like, I think the having the Aws those 3 years really change things. Yeah. For Mike and as a whole because it really put it in the limelight of the government and just day to day people. Like, I think the amount of people, Like I was at riding once it's a few years ago now, and there was, Like, god, I think in his fifties, and he was at Met Biking. And he was just wasn't. And he was telling me, like, oh, I got into it and I went and watch this race. Blah blah He's like... And it just made me love mountain bike, and I told him like, like, I and he said, like, oh, local guy want it, and I was like, I was me. Funny. And he gave me a big hug. No was just like, yeah, you got me, Mike and I was like nate. That's so. It's crazy. It's amazing. Yeah. And to see now like, the trail development going on, like, I think there was a grant of I think, 13000000 from the government to build trails in Ireland. So we've got Think there's like, 7 trail centers around the country. Yeah. Yeah. And the standard of trails is unbelievable. Like it's not. Like, my local hill we used to go up there when I started riding and you get told off by walkers. And there was a handful of tracks, but they were not very good. And now you go up there and like there's purpose builds, world class trails. And there's still, like, off piece stuff as well. And then on the... So that's the front of that hill Is that trail center? There's. Knock. Yeah. And in the back of the hill, is a bike park. The gap. Glen on adventure park, and they've got uplift they've got so many tracks And makes crazy amount of tracks. And, like, that used to be a Golf course. Yeah. And in the recession, the golf course closed and the reopen it as a bike park, which is, like, what like, how that's crazy you Yeah. And, like, you go there any day of the week, especially on the weekends and so there's such a buzzer in the place the place packed. Yeah. Everyone just love Biking. So... Yeah. Like I genuinely anything. Around Dublin is some of the... Is 1 of the best place in the world to ride like now. How it filled to have been, you know, part of doing that promoting that? Yeah. Cool. Like, I wouldn't... Yeah. I wouldn't take too much credit I think there's a lot of people who have done sure. A lot of work behind us. But that I... The Irish win at home. I think it was a big deal or I think that really did kind of spark a few things. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It was it was big. It was definitely big for the sport. And just to see us, Yeah. How it's gradually grown from then until now it's is incredible. Yeah. It's a amazing. Have you had much chance to ride with Ocean and Ronan when you've been at home? Oh, good. Yeah. Ronan lives 20 minutes me. So we do when we're both home at the same time. Yeah. We do ride. And he's very good at... Whenever I get home, he'll send you a text. Let's go riding. Yeah. Which are really good. Oh she needs a bit further away. Mh. So I haven't ridden with him so much. Actually, funny story. I I did a coaching and day with his, like, club when he was, like, 12 or something. Is... Is that dad actually organized Chris? It was so funny because he was, like, so flash. He had all the kids. And he was such a good little rider and he was on this hard tail, and I was kinda teaching them about, like, kind of race lines and race craft. So, like, opening up turns and being smooth and carrying speed. That anything. And he just wanted to shred. And there was, like, this corner and it was like a few bumps coming in and it was like, a left hand boom. I was saying, like, hey, you know, you could set up and, like, get the entry wider and Yeah. Carr to speed, and I know she was just coming in manual through the bumps on his little heart. And, like, doing like, a scan flick it, like, slap on the be. And I was like, yeah. That was class but like, not what it's like you're gonna win it. Let's try this. Like this thing And he just came in into the same thing again. And I was like, right. There's not Hell Kid. He knows what he's doing. Fair play. What a, yeah. Hell of a rider, and he... Like, he has been a hell rider since so age. So... And both taking world cut wins in the not to do yeah. Distant past. Yeah. So I'm. And more, I think. More to come and they're both consistent now as well. Like it's not just a flash in the pan. Yeah. They're both... Like, they gotta go head and their shoulders and they're racing to win now. You know, it's, like, I think, when on shane worn and Snow shoot, It was a bit of a surprise maybe. Oh, you could see it on his face. Right? I don't think he believed he could win a world cup at that point. Yeah. Where now he knows he can. Yeah. Exactly where it's now, like, I think the 2 of them are maybe nearly disappointed if filling out the podium, which is, like, such a cool place to be in. Yeah. For both of them. And for us has fans to watch as well Let's cool to see them right with that confidence? Yeah. 100 percent. Mh. Nice, man. Well, we should start wrapping up and we... When we when we chatted last time we had 3 final questions, we now have 4. So we've got 1 more to do. And that is if you... Oh, sorry. What is 1 thing you do every day that you feel benefits to you. Every single day? Well, or that you would like to think you do every day, but maybe don't quite always manage it. Probably ride a bike? Yeah. Say? Like, I'd probably ride 6 days a week and yeah. You definitely feel better afterwards. Do you find it hard to rest or not? Are you getting better with that? If the weather's going is very hard. Yeah. Especially live in our air. We've got good trails. Yeah. There's always some... Because especially, I think, like, I've got a few quite a few different bikes. So there's always 1 like you're like, I'd love to do that right on that bike. You know? Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. So was never a bad bike right, I think. No. Are doing the bike is a good day. Even if you look out on this raining and you're like, I'm not sure about this. Once she gets stuck in. Yeah. You come in with a smile on your face. Yeah. Exactly. Nice 1. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure catching up mate. If people wanna follow you throughout the season, where's the best place to be looking Yeah. Instagram. Ask Greg underscore Call. Yeah. And Greg Call on Youtube. We've been doing race videos, recap from me each. Trying to give a bit of insight into what's happened. So tune in for little sweet. Yeah. We'll stick links in the show notes all that stuff. Yeah. Thanks, man. I hope the rest of the season goes well. Hope the build continues. And, yeah. Look forward to seeing where it goes. Thanks very much. Awesome. Cheers Greg. Cheers. Alright. That's it for this. Episode with Greg. I really hope you've enjoyed listening. Like I said in the intro, this episode is supported by our wonderful Patreon. If you wanna help the podcast through these challenging times for the industry, then you can from just 3 pounds a month over at patreon dot com forward slash downtime podcast. You can also help by grabbing yourself merch from downtime podcast dot com forward slash shop by sharing the episodes with your friends are online or by subscribing to my Youtube channel at youtube dot com forward slash at downtime podcast and sharing the video some love with likes and comments to help the channel grow. Stay connected by following the podcast hit that button in your podcast app now or visit downtime podcast dot com for. Slash follow. Don't forget to follow on in instagram or Facebook 2 where we're at downtime podcast. And for that extra hosted of downtime, you can sign up to our newsletter at downtime podcast dot com. Forward slash newsletter. Alright. That's it for today. We're gonna have another awesome episode coming up really soon. But until next time, get out and ride.