The truth? I'm all ears. Okay. The truth. I always tell truth even when I lie. Why do you find it so hard to believe? Why do you find it so easy. It's never been easy. You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You don't want the truth All I'm offering is the truth. Nothing Hello. Hello. Hello and welcome to truthful talk. I am Marco, and I'm here once again with Natalie and Yeah. We're here to talk about something. Awesome stuff. Some acting stuff. As as you know, on truthful talk we get on here and and start. Talking and and we see where it goes. Mh. We usually have something we wanna talk about, but, you know, at the same time, we like for it to flow and and see what happened. Yes. Absolutely. And you're were gonna say something right before he started pressing record. Well, we were we were talking about... You had mentioned something about creating a persona for yourself, which sometimes it's kind of like an advanced acting thing, but as an actor We can take the tools that we use to create characters and sometimes in life, we can create characters for different situations that we have to do, which are different personas of who we are and celebrities tend to do that. Mh. Celebrities tend to create a persona for themselves, like, when they go on the talk show circuit, for example. They're uncomfortable doing that. But this so they'll create a persona, Mh. Is more comfortable doing that. Right. And they take that quote unquote character. Because so many actors are okay when they're playing a character, it allows... You know, when you step into this other alter ego, it allows you to do and say things that we don't normally do. But then actors really struggle being themselves. And so by creating this this character thing. Sometimes it allows us to do things in the real world that we don't normally do. Yeah. Like, I create a cleaning house. Like I can do this. Right. Whatever it is to get you in the zone. I don't... But it I think... I think it's actually super helpful. It's something that I've been just dabbling in, but it does help. It just sets the the mindset somewhere else that's Because we are... I think most actors. Most actors are, but you call that introverts. Introverts. Yeah. Believe it or not. They are. Yeah. Am. But I I think... Yeah. Most. I think most. And, of course, there's be... The ones that aren't, but I think most most of them are. So doing that, the amount of promotion it takes, the types of things we were talking about social media promotions and you were talking about the the circuit on television shows all that stuff where people don't wanna do it, You know? They're just like, but they put on the Persona, but they can do it, or they enjoy doing it. This is easy. So many times they'll see actors or even like stand up comedian or, like, that those type of actors that have a lot of energy, and we'll expect them to be just like that in real life and what people don't understand is no. That's a persona. That That's part of the character they're playing either in stand up comedy or comedy movies or Tv shows. Yeah. And in real life, They're actually very introverted. And they're very... It's it's fascinating because I always thought the same. This is a new new there was a winner awareness for me as well because I just didn't think that like You said, the comedian. It's like they all, they have to be funny all the time. I'm sure they are. They're amazing. And then, no, they have moments with their human as well. They're not always on. Not always giving this high energy, you know, they're actually just, you know, grounded humans. Actually, I know a lot of with the communities I know. Very, very grounded, very spiritual. They're like, you wouldn't think based upon the material that they're showing or that they're doing. Kind of interesting. And so I've been seeing some celebrities come out lately, and I don't know you know, to what extent this is true or anything. This is alleged, but, there's some celebrities that are coming out saying that Michael Jackson had a persona. That actually his persona to the public, the very soft spoken, the higher voice hollow of that was just a character he played for himself, but he actually had a deeper voice. Oh, he was more I I guess he more had a a different persona when he was around just close friends. Yes. But then he put on this display, when he was out in the public. And and but it makes sense. I mean, you create... When you're as big as Mj, it's it's... You have a certain thing that the public needs. Mh. I like a Jim Carrey. When when you're... When you expected to be on all the time. Robin Williams, you're ex expected to be on. Mh. And people to say, oh, he's on all the time. No. There's an expectation for you to be on all the time. Yeah. So he had to do that. That's it's exactly what I thought of actually was Jim Carrey when this came up was the the fact of how... You know, amazing he was in his earlier career, what what was it in living color, all that stuff to all the big movies, and then, you know, when you see him talk, nowadays online or whatever it is, like, he's very grounded very spiritual. Maybe, you know, too much for certain people, but there's a whole other aspect to him that That's fascinating to me. I... It's that's a interesting thing because he is very spiritual. But I think he's always been. Right. Spiritual. He just hid that part from his persona to the public because he's supposed to be that crazy wild, like in living color or, you know, ace Fe ventura, you know, he's that type of comedian And now when he's coming out and being, which is too much for his fan base, most of his fan base. That's why they're saying oh my god He's got so weird. He's got, but he went through an extreme trauma. Yes. And so... Is, well, like, his his girlfriend or something passed away or committed suicide. His suicide and blamed him for it. And blamed him for it. So that's that's a lot. I mean, that... That's a lot to take of course for for anyone. Mh. But I think it it got him to the point where it's like listen. I'm gonna just be on... Ap energetically myself. And this is who I am now. Mh. And because even when he was doing his bigger comedy, Liar liar and the mask and all of that, He still wanted to do very both spiritual and also just... Yeah. Let's a positive, Mh. Some dramatic movie. Yeah. Thought provoking dramatic dealing with. Yeah. Yeah. But is fan based didn't want it. So which is normal, Like you, you know, it's it's kinda like you you listen to certain music. And then all a sudden, your band decides to play. A different sound and you're like, wait What happened to the band I used to know. And it's it's like, it so we don't... We have expectations and I think celebrities a they're under this constant expectation of what they're gonna do. It's difficult. Which is so fascinating to me because I think of those who have had those incredible careers. Madonna, of course, she comes to mind. Only because of she was... Let's say, promoted as someone who could be a chameleon or change or her look, if you will. So something to be said about someone changing with the time or... Or evolving, moving forward and not getting pigeon held in 1 thing, so that she had was able to have a super long, incredible career that's still going. But then someone like Jim Carrey who was just in this realm for quite some time, the high comedy, slaps. I mean, I loved Gym Carrey quote every day, several times a day. I think it's a genius. But I guess the the core of who was watching his films didn't want to see him stretch and evolve and do those things. But Right people who are, let's say, more... I don't I don't know open of artist, Jake, if you will, like you wanna see artists do things that you you have... You give allowance for that. You give space. And you get excited when someone does something like what was the eternal sunshine of... This follows mine that 1. What what was the other 1 he was in in the the dome when he was... The truman show. That was a true, that was something good. Won't be and if I just ruled a wash not longer and I I was I was literally, emotional. Yeah. Because of the pro profanity of the situation. So anyways, I just think that maybe the business aspect of this industry, let's say, high business. But he's doing high comedy and he wants to express himself and he just gets in a certain zone for sol and has to break through that, be even as successful as he was but someone like Man madonna was able to just keep it going or evolving. I don't know something about maybe visual art and music, like, I don't know. It's kind of interesting to me, but I think there's some to be said about constantly evolving. And At Yeah. And I mean, that and and Jim carrey is so talented. And he always has been even when he was doing, like, Ace Ventura, you know, that that ridiculous comedy was so good. Soul me. And he had a freedom on stage. Mh. But I think the general public looks at the type of work you do. Even though it's a very... It's a sliver. Mh. And we think that's the entire person. Right. And it's like, no, that's not all someone like Jim Carrey Robin Williams. That's not all they were. I mean look at Robin and Williams who's able to go back and forth From really heavy grounded drama, then really crazy. You know, kind of massive energy comedy. Yes. And he was able to do both. And it's magical. It's amazing. And so we have these in life, we have these different personas. Mh. Mh. And each persona kinda... You know, dictates. Because I mean, we we do it naturally. Like, we have... If we go to work, we have a work mask right. What I call that we put on. It's like, this is how we behave at work. Now your work people might not know certain aspects of you that your friends do. Right. So you have a friend mask where in front of your friends, but they might not know how you operate at work at home. Yes. Then you have a home mask. And Yes. And it's it's almost like each 1 of these masks filters Mh. Different personas out of you. It's Yeah. It makes sense. I'm just thinking how much fun it sounds when you when you have the ability to be aware of that and then control that or put something on that you're, like, this is what I wanna do because I wanna... Like, you're in charge of doing it yourself instead of just by doing default, default wise if you were right. Kind of interesting. Well, that's the thing think most people do it automatically. Mh. We're not aware that we're changing masks, or we're actually just playing characters. That's really what we're doing. No take care. We've developed characters for different parts of our life. Yeah. We... And really, when we learn acting, what we're learning is 1, how we do that in life. And then 2, what happens when we take all the masks off. Mh. Was underneath that, And then how do we then build new masks on top to then play other characters because we have to take all of our social masks off because those are already character so we take all those off, getting down to the depth of who we are, and then we create new social masks or that we put back on for this character or that character or... And it's not even just that we're putting on a mask for the character We put on different masks for the character in different environments. Yes. No so easy. Right? This is the character at home. This is the character at work. This is the character in whatever extreme environment that they're in. Yeah. When you say it like that. Yeah. Just don't recognize how much work that goes into it. Is why this is why learning psychology and deeper emotion and all of this stuff, We... This is what acting is really about when we start learning it. Mh which is what most people don't understand. I mean, we think, 0II wanna learn acting because I wanna learn how to play a character, And it's like, well, yeah. We do, but we do it in a way where we actually ourselves learn how to become that. For real. We don't be coming in our real life. Mh. We don't lose who we are in our real life. Yeah. But we learn how to, okay. I'm gonna take my mask of the real world. I'm gonna take that down, who I actually am, put that down for a minute and put on something else and I'll truly live moment to moment. In this character, Right? Living truthfully under imaginary circumstances. Mh. I was just thinking that how... It reminds me of... Being at work, 1 of the little jobs that I have. Oh, in simulations. Right? So someone... The simulation ended, it was a, at let's say, end of life simulation. It ends and someone walks in, 1 of the... This doesn't matter who. But anyways, she says, oh, I... It's incredible how you can just... Have those crocodile tears going. And I was so taken, like, a guest. I was, like, crocodile tears. Like, These are real tears. There is no separation for it, but she can't understand that. She thinks it's just me. Pretending to cry in a way, but she doesn't understand that the preparation that goes through that in order for that to be expressed fully, that it... If they're not fake tears. No. It's for us. It's very real in the moment. By real, I it's not... Because I I know a lot of people that are trying to, you know, think about acting or maybe you've started acting and you're wondering how do we do the deeper emotion. It's real to us in the moment. Now it's not real as in... We believe it's actually happening in our real life. With there's a separation from our real life to our imaginary life. So we step into this realm of. But within the realm of imagination. It's very truthful and authentic. We're really feeling those things. I mean, we're really going through. If we're going through a devastating moment. We're really going through a devastating moment. In in that time. Yeah. And when you watch actors on camera and do all these things. You'll hear people who are not trained in acting and just be blown away by, oh my gosh. Like, how is she doing that? How is she crying like that, and it's just an incredible thing because the Lay doesn't understand that whole process. And I just love the fact that we as actors when we do it in a healthy way. We understand that it is, imagination, and meaning, but it's also a a muscle that gets exercise constantly over time, but how on the other side, people might not think that it's real, but it is real in the moment. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean because it that's I think what we learn. We learn how to step into it and step out of it. Yes. We actually flip... It's almost like having control over a split personality. We're able to flip over into a different personality and then we're done, we we go back where. Went to Even scarier or when it happens, then in front of someone who doesn't know. It's kinda cute. Like, where are you just crying? Like, I'm fine? Good. This is a great time. It is amazing. So as as an actor, when when we have to perform maybe on onset, or sometimes in front of others that don't know. That is 1 of the things is people immediately come over and they're asking you, are you okay? Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. We're... Yeah. I'm I'm good. Yeah. But, you know because they... They... It's so authentic with their watching, which it is to us too. But when we're done, we snap out of it. Yes. We're out. We're good. We just... We were acting. Mh. And we know how to flip that those switches in and out, but it is amazing how people will come up to you. Oh, you're okay. And yeah. Do you need anything And Very concerned about you and very concerned. And it's a beautiful thing you see the empathy a lot. Yeah. Yeah And that's why it's all also wonderful to have. Directors who are actors or trained in Yeah. Acting. You know, they don't have to be actors, but it's nice for them to have that experience so that they know. So there'd you no. Yeah. No. I I contend that that, actors make the best directors. You know, I I think directors... Listen, as a director, if you're studying film and and everything out there. It's not that you have to be actively on stage or even in front of the camera, but you have to understand acting from a deep level process that because there's there's gonna be 2 types of directors that as us actors we run into. 1 is gonna be 1 that understands acting. And that can help guide us in a very safe way to where we need to go. And the other is gonna be something we call a technical director. A technical director is going to tell us the result of what they want, but they have no idea how to collaborate with us to get there. So a technical director will say, yeah, that that's good, but I want you to do it again, but I want you to be more sad. Mh. It's like, well we... As a human, we can't be quote unquote be more sad. It's not something we can do. So as the actor then we have to translate that into our own language and our own. Process to to do that versus an Actors director understands how what the process is and they're jump in with us, and they can kinda work it through. Yes. They can speak that language. They also understand what we need as the process. Meaning that we need a few minutes before we run the take or we need some private time or whatever it is? Yes. But they can help break it down in in that way. So any... If there's anyone that think of being a director study acting. It's the best thing that you can do, and it's the best thing that film school is not telling you. And it's so it's so it's so useful. It it just... Like you said, it does... You don't have to be an actor, but if you do a couple of semesters acting, class, and you do, you know, are able to sit in their their shoes for a bit and, okay. This is what me, I can give them or all all that to help them along on their journey and collaborate and maybe even which is the best thing in my opinion, you can have a rehearsal for, you know, you'll say, okay, I wanna rehearse this scene, and not just because you want the camera here in front of you or the lighting, but you wanna have the relationships as strong as they can be. You wanna have the the need, the doing a strong as you wanna have the arc of the entire thing. I think this it's a very useful tool. And you've had several students come from directing class come and experience, Yes. Acting class, and they've all said incredible things about the experience. Yeah. It's it's right. We went... Because I teach directing too at the local University and... When those students come and take the act in class yet. It's elevated their game as directors. I And then also they have they have a new profound appreciation of acting. If they have... I can tell... I can see their Aha moment. I can see it happening. They they are massive fans of directors and all that stuff and they're there and when they... After they do the exercise with the semester, I mean, emotional appreciation for, and, you know, and you're an incredible teacher, but they also... They see the other side and it yeah. Like a, oh, an opening behind the curtain. It's always wonderful. And it's an unfortunate thing that in film school for the most part, you're not gonna get that training. They give you the technical training, of camera work, composition, editing, you know, all of those type of things. They'll give you the the technical thing, It's crazy. I never I never knew that I thought that they would with the acting, but they don't. They don't. It's a weird thing in in most colleges and universities, There's a drama department, which is typically theater. Mh. They teach acting. There's then there's a film department, which is separate. It's a different it's a whole different pro, you know, program that you're studying and they're teaching behind the camera, but the but they teach everything but working with the actor. Most of them don't teach how to cast. Mh actors. So you have all of these students trying to cast and have no idea what they're looking for. They don't know how to evaluate talent. They don't know what they're looking for and not looking for. So then typically you have students and then eventually independent films where they're casting and their completely type casting because they think that's what... Oh, I just need to find someone that looks the part It's like, no. That's not that's not how it works. And then they learn you have these directors. You're, you know, you're going through a director program, you know, you get your your bachelor's degree, everything else. Sometimes even a master's degree. And through the entire program, no 1 taught you how to work with an actor. You learn that on your own. And the problem is most new director student directors, even independent directors since you don't know. You're just you're using bad habits. Either your own or somebody else's bad habits. Yeah. And so that's why the best directors out there will study acting and we'll do some level of of acting on your own. We gotta get some of those. Those students, That would be interesting to get there, their experience. And, you know, it'd be so simple for a film school. To say as part of the acting tract, go take, you know, like, like, the 2 elect like, 2 elective that you need to take are in the drama department, Mh. Like, just go take a couple of classes and learn the basics of acting, or bring in someone. I'm mean I'm I'm very fortunate that the University It teach at here is... Of that they bring me it. Mh. I mean, I'm 1 of the few that actually teach at the university level acting 4 filmmakers. And I teach a class that is is how directors work with actors. So it's, you know, fortunate that, you know, my university actually sees the the need for that. But most don't simply because they don't know how to teach it. They don't know what to teach. And it's it's a it's a... Yeah. It is a unique position though. It's something that only those who were directors who just love directing said I... Why I wanna learn acting her vice versa. I think I quentin tara who was a actor first. Was an actor him? And then he flipped to that side. But the score says, I believe he was the director, and then he just, I don't know if he ever was an actor, but he he studied it. Study. Yeah. He studied. Right? It's like, they had so much love. Yeah. That they wanted to get that the best quality on camera of acting. But on camera, and and that's a very unique position. And I don't think in in general, that that... That's like a a bridge to the other side that just a... Is very it's just special position that not everybody does because they feel like they can and they can do. They can direct without having the acting experience, but man does it open different, like levels of a quality but completely. Mh. You know, and if we think about directing for a second, It's like what does a director do? And, you know, if it's something that you're thinking about doing or going into school for directing or, like, you know, we if we really start breaking it down, many times when I'll talk to somebody that wants to be a director and say, what do you think the most important parts are about being a director, typically they'll talk about camera. Why I need to understand how to run the camera. I need to understand how to create the shots and need to understand how to do all of that. And believe it or not, that's not important for a director. It's listen. It's great if a director knows every department. I mean, that's ideally a director should know every single department and how to do it. But you have department heads that do that. As a director, I'm gonna have a director of photography. Meaning my cinematographer that understands the camera and understands how to create the shop more than anything. I have a vision of my heads. I would love it to look like this and I'll sketch it out. We call out a story board. I'll sketch out what I wanted it to look like. Their job is to actually make it happen. Their job is to collaborate with me and say, hey, look. I did this. What do you think? Yeah. Or this is what I could do with what I have. Yeah. Exactly. Is That... We have this camera. We have these lights here's what I can do. It's like, okay. Great. Do that. I have a whole camera team that's running the camera. So I just say what I want. Mh. They figure it out. So we have all that. I have a production team. I have a design team, a hair makeup wardrobe. By have all of that. I have you know, p... The whole art department that's, you know, I just have to have a concept of what I want. Everyone else does it. Yeah. Production finds me locations for, Like everyone else is doing all of that. Sound is doing their thing. Everyone's doing their thing. So what's left? Mh. Acting. I don't have anyone else to guide the actors outside of the director. Yeah. That's what a director's job is because we have other people that does everything else. Go figure. But working with the actors is the 1 thing that it it it all falls on top of the director. Mh. But yet, that's the piece they don't teach. And that's the piece that they don't teach. They teach cinematography and sound and editing and production and all of that stuff. So so when... Let's say, let's say a high award ceremony when they're giving out these awards for best director. How are... What are they assessing? Well, usually within the awards ceremony, best direction is gonna be a combination, its overall storytelling, basically. Mh. So they are assessing the acting. Mh. Because you'll notice a lot of times best director best picture falls under all... The ones that have the best actors. Mh. They kinda go hand in hand. Mh So a lot of times it's it's vision of the project and then the execution of that vision. Which goes to best director and then in a very similar way you'll see best director, best picture. They're all kinda lined up. Okay. Because best picture is a combination of all the departments together. And all of them all all working at a high level. So in production location. Right. So you'll geography. If we're looking at 10 different films and we're ranking them in different categories. Best picture is gonna be 1 with high ranks in all the categories. Mh. Yeah. Best director though is gonna be cinematography, editing and performance. And performance. And then in those performances, if we get a little bit more focus in in that, you're looking for or what are you trying to get out of your actors when you are directing? Truth. Truth. I want truth, but I I don't want mundane. Small truths. I want truths that I don't see every day. Meaning, I wanna see an expression of emotion that I don't see every day. I wanna see someone go through something that I might relate to, but that I'm afraid to feel those things or express those things. So it's the expression of truth and the expression of of that internal life and internal storytelling emotional storytelling that we don't see every day. Mh. And you'll see. Typically your best actor or best actress categories like in the Oscars, they go to the emotional moments. That's what they're that's what they show. Yeah. So this really deep emotional moment? It's like, yeah, then that's that's it. That's it. But then why are we not training actors? I mean, training directors to work with actors to hit those moments. Right. It's overlooked completely. And so you have directors that come out of film school and and not understand acting at all. So then they just expect that we as actors can just... Do it. Got. Without direction. Mh. Mh. Because they don't know otherwise. So it's an interesting thing. And I just think it's a lack of knowledge at the university level. It's also a lack of... There's a difficulty teaching directors this level of acting their psychology in it. So it's like, oh, we gonna cross that boundary with the psychology department. There's it's it's we're... It's vulnerable. It's... Yeah. I mean, you know, there's all these different departments that was like, hands off and So it's it's a it's a it's an interesting thing, but it's a glaring hole in, Yeah. In the universities. Today? Do you think that actors should study directing or you think that that's something that is just if it pulls you that way as an actor or do you think that's beneficial for an actor to actually study that, study directing. Yeah. I'd I I do actually. And in fact, we'll... I'll tell my students the acting students. That 1 of the best things they could do is work behind the scenes either on in theater in film and... But but not just in directing, but learning how a film is made. How is the television the television show made. How is a theater production put on? Understand more than just the role of acting because if sometimes actors get really frustrated with the process, especially film. Mh. There's a lot of waiting around and fill. As an actor. Yeah. But the crew is not waiting around. The crew constantly working and sometimes, yeah, it might take 2 hours to set up the next shot but they're working really hard to make that shot look exceptional for you the actor. Mh. So instead of getting frustrated on how long it is, we by working as a production assistant or just behind the scenes and realizing how much it goes into it. And how much care they're putting into making you look so good, I think as an actor we have a much greater appreciation. Yeah. And of those things. Do you think it helps with storytelling? Learning to direct? I do. So as an actor, that's a really good question. So as an actor, we typically take on the point of view of our character. So if there's, you know, over many main characters there are in a story, We're we're jumping into our point of view of the character, what we want, what we're fighting for what our version of the relationships are so forth. But as a director, we have to take down the whole picture. We have to know how every single person fits into the puzzle. And then how it all, like, mix this together. And so what I found is that by studying directing, or understanding the overall story process. We learn how to make better decisions as an actor when we pick up a role because it's not just what choices am I making for me in this role. It's what choices am I making for my character that affect the story in a positive way. That's best for the overall story. Right. It's so much. I'm I'm just trying to think. Okay. For Well, I mean, you directed Sam and myself and that that 1 thing. Mh. And as an actor, I'm looking at... My point of view. Right. I looking at her point of view, you had to look at we'll know how does it bounce off each other for the audience? Yes. Yeah. There's a difference. And there is a difference. It's... It's pretty helpful for my experience. It's a lot to take on. I feel like a a role of a director. Is so much to be able to maybe a little by little. But because you are looking at the whole story can't even imagine what it would be, like, for a play or for a movie with all of the moving parts and All of the, you know, inc incidents, the change and the all of that stuff to be able to see in the big picture. Right. Because me as the actor, is so used to just doing like you're saying this 1 role in different times different days, but I have my little journey, my little map that I'm mapped out that that's where I'm going. And that's it. But if there's, you know, 8 more of us and we're all actors and the director has that whole thing put together. It just amaze me of how they can utilize their brain and and that that function. I think it's just say more brain power or map know, maybe practice makes perfect though. I just overwhelm, it overwhelm me to think of a a play or something to be like, wolf, you Not. It's a lot. Oh, is more than 2 people. Oh, it's it's a it's a lot. And I can You know, in and and they each, you know, stage and film to me both have their... Challenges. Mh. Film is very disconnected, So as a director in film, I need to know Like going into it So prep production and film could last a year or 2. Like But can you just say that again because I... Like, people... I don't get it and people don't get that. So prep production, which is the time that is leading up to production. It's before production. Production is when we're in front of the cameras shooting. Tell me. That's the shooting. Pre production is the time before that, Does us all the planning stages. It can take a year or 2 to put everything in place to then film. To me, that's the difficult part of of directing, producing. It's it's that time because it's really just... It's it's putting everything in place so then production just runs smooth. But it's it's testing your actors. It's it's bringing all your crew on board, all your equipment, locations, legality, storytelling, story boarding, so we're planning. Mh. Before you go in as a filmmaker, before you go into actually filming something, you need to know what you're filming, and you need to know why. So we have a script, but then we have to break down the script, and then we have to... We do these things called story board which can be anything from sketches of these stick figures weren't really very... Yeah. To to... But to things like your, you know, some some story boards or, like, works of art. Yeah. But it's it's pre visualizing what we're going to go film. Mh. And then the departments need to figure out how do we it? It's like, this is what it looks like. So are we doing it practically? Are we gonna use post production to Cgi anything on top of it? Like, how are we going to then pull it off? And that can take months to just figure all that out. Is there any cut... Lenders cost and hair and and, you know, makeup and Is there any sort of are we doing any creature work depending on what we're doing? Or, you know, is there any prosthetic? Is there there's so much that goes into it? Mh and just figuring all that out, then we want all of that figured out. So as the director, the other thing we need to know, we need to understand acting really, really well so we can hopefully have rehearsal and be working with our actors. What we want is that when we get to set, acting All the actors already know what we're doing. Mh. It's almost like, you know, when we get to set, that's the live performance. Yes. But we need the rehearsal, so we understand what the live performance is supposed to be. So we have to do rehearsal. The other thing we need to really understand. As a director is editing. So when we edit a film, we're taking all the things that we collected and we're piecing them together to tell a story. Well, we need to actually know what the edit is prior to filming. Mh. Because otherwise, we don't know what we're collecting? Mh. Like, what shot are we gonna do? What lens are we gonna use, what angle are we gonna be Like, what is all of that? How are we gonna compose the shot, meaning the arrangement of of people in imagery within the the frame? Like, how do we know what to collect? Unless we know what we're gonna use it for. So we have to pre visualize the edit, which is again with the story board, does. Mh. And so there's... I mean, we're making the film before we make the film. Right. By the time we get to production. We're just collecting the pieces for the edit. That's a sweet way to put it. And then the edit is where the film is actually made. Mh. Strung together, the pearls are strung together. Well, now we have the pieces. Everything leading up to the edit, which is we call post production, everything leading up to the edit, is just preparation for the edit. Mh Because now whatever whatever we actually shot, those are the actual puzzle pieces we have and now was an editor, My job is to tell a story with the puzzle pieces that we have. Yes. It's fascinating. So a director, there's a a lot that a director needs to be involved in before production and typically, directors are involved in the edit in some way. A Mh Even if they're not the ones physically doing the editing, they're overseeing. Yes. The editing with the editor. Yes. And, yeah. And then it all just it comes together that way. It's it's a whole... It's it's an interesting thing. But from an acting standpoint, That's what, you know, a director needs to understand what do we need for the edit to really tell the story and how do we get the performance out of the actors for that? Yes. That's what we need. Mh. Now, on stage, it's a little different. On stage it's all about the acting. So a director needs to understand. So think about this, it's in film and television, it's about editing. So it's it's a visual medium from the standpoint of or watching something on a screen, and how does that... Mh. String of or collection of visual images? How do we piece those together to make someone feel something. Along with music and sound and everything else. Well, in theater, it's all happening live in front of you. It's not the same... We can't edit. No. And theater. So from a directing standpoint, we need to edit live. Meaning, editing is pulling focus. Editing is all about. I'm gonna tell the audience what to look at. And trade on train. I'm gonna put into focus what I want the audience to see. Gotcha. I'm gonna take out of focus what I they can ignore. Mh. Trade On stage, we need to do the same thing, but it's all in the acting. The acting needs to pull focus. The arrangement of the actors needs the pull focus, which is we call blocking, how they move, how it's so precise that it all falls onto the acting. Mh. Which is the why is a director we need to understand acting. Gotcha. Because it's not just about, you know, so many times in community theater. You'll... First, you go into rehearsal. Rehearsal can be 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, you know, somewhere in there. First rehearsal called the table Read where you sit around and you read the script out loud. And typically in community theater, second rehearsal is blocking. They start arranging you in the space. That's not even built yet. It's not even built yet. Right. So we some random space that were... It's a rehearsal space. And so I always had an issue with that? As an actor Had an issue with that is, like, how are we arranging where we're moving? Before we even know the story we're telling. I get the stories on the page, but we haven't explored the characters yet. Mh. We haven't figured out who these people are, what's motivating them. What's the internal life, what's all of those things. And so we even have technical directors. In stage, and they're the ones that wanna jump to the blocking. They wanna jump to note as long as you know where to move and on the lines to say, then we have a plea. The walking or the blocking will take you to the next line or the next... Yeah. But if you really understand acting, actors that become stage directors know that we block last. Yeah. Because that's the editing. We can't... You know, even though we have a vision for with a story we're gonna tell, we have to then explore the characters in rehearsal and figure out who they are. Mh. And then we just side what we're gonna actually. I love what you just said. It's just still... What blocking is the edit. The stage edit. Yep. Yeah. The a big piece of it. I love that. Because depending on how how we move and how we mh strung things and where the actors are positioned from 1 another, you know, for further apart, from, you know, if I take 2 actors and I move them apart on the stage then I'm showing a distance. Yes. I've I visually have a void between them versus if I move them together, there's a reason they're coming together. Mh. I can't figure that out before I if before we explore the acting. The fourth we explore the performance and and the personalization, which is personalization is trying to figure out the motivation of the Mh. Characters. Why do we do or say anything that we do. Before we know that, how do we know where to move them? How do we know because we either as humans we either move towards somebody or away from somebody. Mh. Like, either being pulled or were being pushed. Mh. And so there's a motivating factor as human beings of why we move. And then and of course, there's the arrangement. We move actors in a very specific way, because that's what the audience will look at. Mh. So typically, we don't want after moving at the same time. We don't want Right. We don't want... We don't want distracting blocking, which is would be like a distracting edit. Mh. It's so simple, but... At the same time difficult challenging. But you do... You... It's easier for you to understand if you have that experience on both sides from the director and the actor. I think it makes more sense. The more you do shows as an actor, But then if you have the ability to direct something or c direct something, then you can see how everything is from the other side, so you recognize it, yeah. It's not all about me here. That you are part of the team more so than yourself. Yes. No, big time. It's... Big time. Collaborative. Mh. And so that's where I think that... Because we learn all these tools as actors. Over time, but we learn all these tools. Mh. But then So to take as an actor, learning all these tools on stage and why they're important to take them into directing, I think is easier. Yeah. Than trying to learn them. After the fact is a director. It's it's it's it's an interesting thing. Yeah. It is fascinating because you... From that little... That side of the actor, even though we... Our ourselves we, you know, put so much pressure on our shoulders as actors. But then when, you know, you get a direction from the director and the other actresses moved, you know, down stage. And, like, why is she there? Like, meaning is in the very beginnings of it. You're not understanding that there's a whole reasoning behind it. But once you do understand that language, you know as cast member that this is because this is... It means for the story, it has to be done. Yes. In a beautiful way, in a very, like, a relaxed easy going way. And else to explain it, but it was in an aha moment to, like, coming from, let's say, high school middle school, all those things. That you don't recognize why. But it... Why I to stand here? You know, like, Anyways, it's just... Well because... Yeah. Right. You you don't necessarily know. You don't know. Yeah. From the acting standpoint. And it's just like just stand there and don't say anything. Don't move. Great example is, and you see this a lot on Tv and you don't even think about it, but especially on stage 2. 2 actors are sitting side by side on a couch. And what we do, is an order for the audience to have the best shot of them is we have them both face forward. It would be facing the camera or facing the audience. Mh. Actors have this feeling that they wanna look at each other when they talk. But if you look, you go into profile and all of a sudden, it's not as interesting. Yeah. Loses an effect to the audience. All these direct actors. Okay. Do the same thing sit side by side, but don't look at each other just face forward. And they have trouble with it. It's like Yeah. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't... And until you step on the other side as the director and look at it. And say, okay. Want you experience... That's what I'll do is sometimes with actually. I'll pull them. Say okay, come out here. Look at it both ways and tell me as an audience which 1 feels better. Yeah. And then it's like, well, obviously, the 1 facing forward feels bad. I'm like, yes, it does, which is why that's how we have to do it. Yes. It's for the benefit of the audience. Mh. But you really only get that viewpoint as the director. Right. That's working in that... Perspective. A different perspective from what you're doing, what but if from just a different side, which is lovely to see and you do have these neurological connections are like, oh, that's why. Oh, he wasn't being a jerk about it. It's because the audience is also. That's why we're there together. We're doing it for them. Actors will also, you know, are very concerned, and I I understand where this comes. But they're concerned, sometimes I'll ask them to do things and and they feel really silly or they feel ridiculous doing it. I don't know if you ever felt that in any of the things, But but you just feel like from, Is this out of my element, and they're worried about it. Like, I... I'm I'm worried that... I'm gonna look bad. And I... After have to remind them I'm like, listen. I'm never gonna make you look bad. Yeah. On stage or in front of the camera. Yeah. It's always for the benefit of the character, which is the project. I'm not gonna sabotage the entire project whether it's a film or whether it's a play, you know, trying to push you somewhere where you don't think you can go. It's I I know it's silly to you because you're not used to doing this. You're not used to singing these lines. Or you're not used to doing this very which feels like maybe over the top Yeah. Saying either when you're saying something or doing something, but it's like, no It's it's all. I promise... I was at the promise. I promise I will never make you look bad Yeah. To the audience. Yeah. Feel like, yes, I have gone through that experience. But it was while, but, yes, I have. And I think it was... I think you even said, like, I promise. I'm I'm like, I don't know. But it's a trusting thing and you have to go learn through that lesson too. And I remember there wasn't an actress when we were doing 1 of these shows and at I remember, you wanted her to be bigger. She was jumping. And she just didn't want to go idiot, But, you know, and it takes and it took a while for her to physically get to a point of excitement and jumps. She was supposed to be scared or something. Somebody knocking at the door. I remember, and I saw myself in her, you know, previously, like, oh, okay. Here's her moment. If she's... Has to trust you to say bigger. No. You're not... It might not seem real to you. Or authentic, but this is what the audience sees. Yeah. Has a much better experience from the audience... Better experience and then, you know, so you have to kinda go through those bumps a little bit, but does it look growing curve, learning curve and helpful for sure to be able to see. Because then it takes away the self confidence and that's, I think the death of an actor, if you will, the the that. If you lean into the self con what they like you no confidence. Right. If you lean into the fear of that. Yeah. You're you don't... You're not ready to be able to make an offering or take a risk or look like a fool, and I think that's a lot of the job too. Sometimes it's just being out of your comforts on and being okay with that. Yes. I'm most of the time we're out of our comfort. So I think as an actor we're... I mean, even when we're doing very which seemingly looks like mundane things. We're not ourselves or stepping into a different life. But I think this comes back into I think we talk about it, like, in in the previous episode, but was trusting your director. Yeah. I think when you learn how to trust your director, you can let go and just even though... Listen, This is not me. It doesn't feel right to me. It's it's weird, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Yeah. I'm gonna go where they're asking you to go. Now with that, I think coming into this episode, mh for an, you know, an actor I think would be more apt to trust their director if the director understands acting. Yeah. Right? Because you... You know, it's it's almost like, when you go to in in a very weird way. But you discover admit that you're an alcoholic. U. And you go to Aa. Yeah. Well... They give you a sponsor. U. Well, your sponsor is not somebody who's never had a drink in their life. Too. Your sponsor somebody who has been drink looking drink. And has come out the other end and says listen, I've been there. I've hit rock bottom. I've come out the other end. I've had my stomach pumped. I know what you're going through, I I, you know, because I've been there myself, and I can help you out. Well, as an act, or if we have a director that's like, listen, I understand. I've been there. Yeah. I've struggled with these things myself. Yeah. I'm gonna help you through it. Yeah. Man, it's... That's so inviting as an actor to have someone that understands what we go through and understands the struggle. As an actor. Yes. I agree... I mean, every most of the directors that I've worked with outside of you are mostly technical directors. And so I've had this discussion with other actors too. It's like, but when we do come back and we work with you, like, you're you're the base of it. But because you are an actor and a director. So the bar is you hold the bar very high. So when we go to other people, it's like, They were okay, but you can tell that that they don't... They never had experience being an actor. You... I mean, and you can see it. And there is a some kind of chasm between you 2 no matter how much you gel personally outside. There's a language in onset when the lights are on, when the whatever pressure quote unquote pressure is on. And when they're trying to tell you something, and you're in a zone, it's it's just it's clunky. It's the conversation is you try... You're trying to speak the same language but you're from 2 different planets. You know, it's like you you're trying your best. And then you do your best. 1 is like, okay. Got it. Like, I think I do. Okay. Sure. Let me give it a go. Yeah. Instead, if you have somebody who is the director and has that experience as an actor. Oh, boy. It's the clarity, communication, like, you're both on the same page, and you understand each other and you get it. So then you you know where you're aiming. Or we're going with that. So it is... Does really good point. You know where you're aiming. III like that. And and I think we get a deeper performance out of it. More meaningful. We're gonna get a more meaningful, more specific to the story more... Specific to the character. We're gonna get that more powerful performance because we're both talking in the same language, naming at the same direction. And the the non specificity of acting. I feel it even... It it comes through I can't explain it. Some somebody can do it like, oh, that they did a great job man. I don't know. It feels like there's not enough. And that's the word, specificity, focus. As an actor, the choices we make when we're writing, like everything, people places things, like, we have to know what we're talking about, but at the same time, that's just the personalization. But with that with the director having that, the double w if specificity. And you're both on the same page, I think it's even more focused sharpened if you will. Yeah. Because it falls a little bit flat if it's not. It's a director's like, yeah. Do whatever you want. It's just like, oh, man. You know, so many times, I... You know, I run into... Maybe community theater directors or, you know, community theaters is an interesting group because everyone's volunteering their time, which I think is really cool. Right. A group of people come together volunteer their time to create theater, whether it's it's it's of, you know, building sets and directing and producing, and so it's a really, really cool place. But at the same time, I've run into AAA group of producers directors that don't wanna train. It's like, you you think you know it all because you've come up in your raised in or you're just... You've been around this. 1 of those things where it's like, no. I've been doing this for 15 years. Why do I need training? Like, well, no. No. Yeah. What if? It's what if you could do it better? What if you could you could actually take it to the next level? Why not? Why not you? Yeah. Why not? And and so it's interesting. I find that people who have been doing it for a long time don't wanna learn a different way. I guess old dogs, new tricks. I don't know how that works. But, you know, to me, I'm I'm always trying to learn something new. Yeah. And I think that's that's part of the blessing of, keeping evolving, moving forward, moving past your comfort zones always pushing yourself, emotionally, mentally in healthy ways, but getting better, basically, Doing better than you did previously, you don't wanna do the same thing over and over again. Right. And to me as a director of producer in theater, why not? Learn more of what actors go through? Yeah. Especially in theater, this is best basically who you're working with. You bring on actors to do shows 1 after another. Why not know what? And actor needs or an act, you know, but maybe to cast better. Yeah. There's so many of that. So many elements in this world of... Acting in the business of acting and the artist of acting, there's so much to do that if to me, you rest on your I guess Laurel is what they call lean back and you don't do much to me. You're you're quote unquote sleeping on it. Because there's always something to do. Especially as a director, but even as an actor or whomever it is. It's just to sharpen that tool. I was just in rehearsal and with some people and a are having discussion and it's... It goes back to the basics. It's the course. Like, you know what? It's... And these people are seasoned. So it's just something that You can always work towards becoming a better version of yourself. I think Good. I think we aspire to that. Yeah. I think we should always do that. And That's wow We're almost at a time again. You believe that this this so fast. Mh. But no. IIII agree with that. And it's interesting how this 1... I guess, today was about directing. My take care. But no. I I do encourage... Listen. Actors out there, I encourage you to, if you have any... Well, first of all, actors work behind the scenes. Work behind the scenes and theater work behind the scenes in in film. And for film, you know, when I say work behind the scenes, find you know, a film school that's local to you and get involved. Believe me when I say students student filmmakers need help. They need something called production assistance, which are just kind of general hands that can help them do things on set or in prep production, most productions both independently and students need help with casting, They need something called readers, a reader our actors that are in there and are are reading the scripts opposite, the actors coming into audition. So and typically, we want actors for that. But there's so many ways to get involved. That I would get involved. Theaters are constantly looking for volunteers to help out. And most of a time, you help out with a, local theater and you get to see the show for free. Yeah. That's really cool. Right? Even if you're taking tickets at the door or you're an Usher, something very simple But then you get to see the show. Mh. It's like, well, that's that's great. I mean, that that... That's a great way to do and and exposed to to more theater. But I think actors, you know, we need more directors and quality acting type director. So actors that have any sort of inclination just aren't getting involved behind the scenes and learning how that goes. And then typically in the in the bigger cities typically, but you can look anywhere, aren't there are gonna be community theaters that encourage beginning directors. And you can go and you can direct a small, like, 10 minute show or something, but you can get involved and to start directing, just start doing it. And then in film from my either films students out there or for anyone that is looking to be a film director, study acting. Take an acting in class, just start learning what it's all a about. Because that's gonna help you. It's also gonna help your actors and it will help your films and put them at a much higher level That's what I got. Sweet. Very sweet. Makes sense. It's helpful, expand, expand. Expand. So thank you all once again for tuning in. And we really appreciate it. Please make sure you're you spread the word of truthful talk to your friends family or anyone that might be interested. We would appreciate it if you do. Absolutely. And we will be back again next week. So we will see you again then. And until then, make sure you treat yourself with kindness and reward yourself for the risks that you take. Alright, everyone. See you soon. Bye. Bye. If you'd like to learn more about our studio and what we do, you can find us online at t acting dot com. And check out truthful acting online dot com for our learn at home at your own pace courses. So what I told you was true, from certain point of view. You brushed. What do you have earn? Know what you're trying to do? Trying to free your mind, but I can only show you the door. Know the 1 that has to walk through.