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For all of you who are sitting out there wondering about more food, last podcast, we talked about foods around the globe. You remember that, Dean? No. He's got nothing. He's just staring at me. And, why am I surprised by this? I will tell you that we talked about food around the globe. We're gonna be talking more about food around the globe today. Do I eat it? Do I not eat it? Do I do I pass it around? I mean, I mean, I'm not gonna Should I touch it, not touch it? And what do I touch it with? Yeah. Yeah. And we've also got a listener. And, they wrote to us and and had a question, which is really kind of intriguing and interesting because it leads us into an area that a lot of people, especially people in the US, but I think in a lot of parts of the world, they don't really know or understand very well. Oh, let's hear it. Well, we'll we'll we'll get to it. Hold on. Hold on. Tell me gratification again. And, we will and and then we've got, we've got some other stuff. Torin, our producer's here. And and hi, Torin. Hello. And, what else are we talking about today? Some etiquette around eating eating different foods. Are you gonna talk about more food god. Around the world, and then how do you Is that your idea, Dean? Go ahead, eat them. I had nothing to do with it. Okay. Great. So etiquette also, Alright. And there's something with exploding. I I'm not gonna Are you I'm I'm alright. Okay. Yeah. Oh, we we're gonna frightened. When we talk about this stuff, we have to explode some myths. Well, okay then. Well, in that case, guess what? Started. Guess what? Oops. Your culture's showing. And I'm Tom Peterson, and I'm, here with my co host, Dean Foster, who, as I read on a bathroom wall just last week, is an expert in cultures around the world. So, Dean, what I was dying to ask you about Dying to ask you? Well, that may be extreme, but basically, yeah. That what I wanna ask you about was fish. I I just wanna know if there's a cultural aspect that you can can come up with here for fish. Didn't we once talk about the ceremony of the head of the fish in China? Uh-huh. Right? We did. You know, where the you're the honored guest receives the head of the fish because Yep. It's supposed to be the most tasty part of the fish. The cheeks, actually, the area right right in front of the gills. Now do we really buy that, or is that look. If I had if you had I don't buy it at all. I either buy the fish or the fish. Because somebody offers it. When I go in a store, I'm talking buying I see. I see. I'm not talking about the actual fish. I'm talking about the concept. Again, I'm sort of looking at it in a sense of, okay, perhaps the cheek of the fish. And and and, by the way, I'm going to be lined up with the people who are going wait. Fish have cheeks? But if if we go to the fish cheek and we're eating that cheek fish. No. Wait. Hold on. Fish cheek. Fish cheek. And if if we're doing that, is it because we it's it's really that good, like, we're being sold, or is it because we don't have a lot and this will encourage people by everyone agreeing that these parts of the head are are better tasting? Well, the scarcity issue, yeah, makes it very ceremonial, makes it very special. So So we we make a a concept that is adjusted and adapted over time that bigger more and more people will do it so that you will you will eat this. Yeah. And you will actually use up the the the stuff they have. The scarcer it is, the more special it is. Even if it's, I mean see, not as dumb as he looks. Old Fishcheeks Foster. Fishcheeks Foster. That's not easy to say. Foster. Now how did you know that was what they called me in junior high? Is it? Yeah. And how much do I know I don't wanna know why? Well But I'm thinking, like, the different kinds of foods that are out there, you know, whether they're ceremonial or whether they're just day to day foods, they they all are subject to these kinds of rules, the cultural rules and the economic rules and which determines why or why we eat them or not. There's also a use of fish in ways that isn't about eating it, That that you can, like What else do you do with a fish that other than eat it? I, I've well, you can have a nice conversation with the fish. And you'll always be right. Decorative. How many people have fish tanks? And Oh. And you have the feng shui that we've spoken about. That's right. Where you have that placed in certain positions and places. And there's a good luck aspect of I may be oversimplifying it, but that kind of thing that goes along with it. And then there's the I mean, there's the Moby Dick idea of of the kind of massive fish and power fish, jaws. That that concept, I mean, I does is that cultural? I mean, is there is there an aspect to that that says well, the whole the fish, I think, plays a powerful role in a lot of, Genesis myths. Jonah and the whale. Yes. Jonah and the whale and and and these great beasts that are under the water and as part of classical Greece classical Greek story. Sure. Sure. The heroes and Homer's Odyssey and the encounters with, you know, the mermaids and the strange sea creatures that are that are lurking out there. I think it speaks to, you know, the unknown and the things that we 20,000 leagues under the sea. Sure. It's been Yep. Part of our literature. Yeah. Yeah. So So eat it. You know? If it's on your plate, eat it. Because Eat that cheek. Right. Because this creature cheek. You know, now it's kind of like once you eat it, then you know it. You've conquered it. And you know what? Maybe there is also, like, eating the you we we talked about things. You were talking about, like, eating the you get the goat's eye or some other tongue of something and things like that. Well, and we were saying, I think, in Kazakhstan, depending on the part of the animal that you're given Yeah. That's been sacrificed in your honor, it's a way of acknowledging a certain aspect of you and your personality. So if you're given the eye, that means you're very wise. Yeah. They see you as very wise. Yeah. If you're given the tongue, that means you talk a lot in a good way, I guess. Oh, really? Okay. So you can imagine that Well, you took it that way. I'm sure. What parts of the body I was given. I don't want no. No. I'm not going to imagine that. I'm I'm gonna have incredible control over myself and not imagine that. I was, just I I just saw a Broadway show called Come From Away, which is about north Newfoundland. And if you visit Newfoundland, one of the ceremonies that gets you into the community says you have to kiss a cod. Seriously? You have to kiss a cod. Okay. Yeah. A live cod. Okay. Right? It sounds like it sounds like some sort of weird dating Presuming that a cod has lips. Well And if it's a French cod, they have it. Then you have more than just the lips involved. I guess so. Well, if look. All the cods I dated had lips. Okay? So that's all I can speak to. But as a person who actually have caught I I actually have caught a great many cod. There are several different kinds. Do do they have lips? Most. I cannot remember any that I caught that did not have lips. Did you ever kiss them? I think that's personal between me and the cod. And if the cod's not speaking, I'd ask you. No. Maybe. That's correct. But, you know, to this to this idea of doing challenging, difficult things Yes. Like, in some of the some tribes in East Africa Yeah. To show your manhood, and it's often part of a rite of passage Yep. Coming of age. Coming of age. Yeah. You'd you'll cut the vein. The elder will cut the vein of a of a cow. And cows are very, very valuable and very important aspects of daily social life there. The more cows someone owns, the wealthier they are, the higher the status, etcetera. So you you cut a vein of the cow and you collect some of the blood, and then you drink it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's a tough one. Mhmm. But how different is that really from black pudding? Well, that would assume I'm actually going to eat black pudding. So Right. And which is which is not you know, we don't have to go to Africa to see this. I mean, this is a this is a fairly staple dish in in, you know, in England and Scotland. Right? Pudding, which for the listeners, is basically congealed blood, you know, and prepared in a sort of a taste So to answer your question, just logistically, the difference is it's congealed. And cooked. As opposed to being warm and and runny. Right. Is anyone still listening to us? And tell me about haggis. Tell me about haggis. I've had it. I've been in, you know, I've been part of a ceremony, and I know people like it. And, you know Well Mhmm. Torin, you've had haggis. I have. It's delicious. Okay. And and do you remember what was in it? Did you know what was in it when you ate it? Yeah. Stomach stomach beef stuff. It was it was good. It was tasty, whatever it really was. Okay. It's spicy up and and it's and it's inside the stomach, right, of the Right. Mhmm. They give it a in the stomach lining. Yep. And you go in there to Which is kind of like what It was good. I remember growing up, part of the part of the the the food from Eastern Europe that we had, again, a ceremonial food Right. Was kishka, which was stuffed intestine. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Now what's surprising now, it it it that's the whole concept of now now here's a very basic cultural aspect that that even I can talk to. It's it's the old don't judge a book by its cover type of thing. Because if you're saying if Torrid is saying that there is there is this thing, which I'm imagining doesn't look all that great, but when you eat it, you like the taste of it. Now if that's true, then your first reaction, you would assume. Also, you know where it came from. Your first reaction is, seriously? I'm supposed to eat this? And yet you eat it and then go, oh, this tastes good. If you can do that, but people can't necessarily get by what they see. Or don't ask, you know, and that raises a question that I'm often asked, which is, should I ask about this food that's being presented to me? Sure. You know, do do I do I want to inquire? Yeah. And, you know, I think the safe thing is if you're ready to hear things that you don't really wanna hear. Wanna hear, then don't inquire. And if you're enjoying the taste, then don't ask. You know? But but if you do wanna know, get ready for any possibility because that meat could be of any kind of animal. Sure. You know? And but, you know, raises the issue that, you know, non meat eaters. Right? They'll they'll feel similarly turned off by any kind of meat that's presented. And so it's it's all relative, isn't it? And it's all basically what we're used to. What you're mentioning, it sounds like many of my relatives. That's for sure. Okay. That just completely killed everything. Wait a minute. Your That was the haggis of jokes. Right? Cannibalistic. Are you talking about your relative? Said it's all relative, and I went for the cheap relative joke. And then you decided to throw me under the box. I was so mad eating meat. So it sounded like you were saying Well, look. You're relatives. Own. Okay. And I guess if it's relative, it is your own. So it's Are they eating each other? Are they is it but even cannibalism Where are you going with this? I'm really frightened. In Papua New Guinea. And And in other in other places, not just Papua New Guinea. Cannibalism is part of in certain tribes. Not not all right. Is it that it can be in much of Polynesia, actually, traditionally. But but it's a tradition. But it's about taking in the qualities of the individual that you're eating Uh-huh. Or one aspect of So you're saying it's being looked at. It is almost a an honor to do that. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. But like those hooded, you know, the hoods you have to wear in southern France when you eat that particular bird that they serve you. This isn't gonna go to a dark place here, is it? Oh, yes. It's very dark on the hood. Under the hood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The whole idea is to absorb the aroma of the preparation of this this dish Yes. That's made with this very particular kind of bird. Yes. Lives in that area. It's a very small, delicate bird, and it's a delicacy. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. And then and then you take the hood off and you and you eat it, but you first, you absorb the the whole aroma using the sense of smell, which is very powerful. You know? So I don't as a cultural In many of the Andean cultures, there's the staple food is basically their version of a guinea pig. It's called Cui in Ecuador. I've heard that. Yeah. Okay. Which is you know, I I think a lot of US Americans have grown up with hamsters as pets Right. Would find that objectionable. I'm sure they would. Well, there's also the concept of eating dogs Yes. Which is done in some in some cultures. Yes. Right. Yes. And we've talked about the fact that It's not as is not as not that common, and it's not as ubiquitous as as the urban legend of it is. But it does. Yes. It's part of it. It does. It is part of the diet. But also there is as we've as we've spoken of before, there's also places that domesticated animals aren't the same. It's not like the dog and cat in the United States that is that is kept indoors and loved like another member of the family. That's in in in many countries, that's just not taking place. It doesn't happen that way. You know, it's what what I'm thinking right now is is that all this eating talk has really made me hungry. So, so we're gonna take a little break here. But when we come back when we come back, I want to, I I got a question for you about something that's coming up that I think kinda fits into all of this. And I think it's a Torrence, it's a question from, one of our listeners. Right? Yes. It is. Okay. Well, then we'll we'll do that after we come back. But for right now, we're gonna get something to eat and take a little break. We'll be right Got any questions for us? Well, if you do, there's a couple ways to get hold of us. First of all, on email, our email address is oops culture show at gmail.com. And our handle on Twitter is oops culture show. Pretty clever. So talk to us. Alright. So we're back, and we are talking about foods, and and we've got something coming at the time that we're recording this particular podcast. Coming up is the time of Ramadan, and that's one of the times that, like, in many, many parts of the world, in different different ways, there is a a time of fasting. Oh, so we're talking about not eating. Right. And that's where we're going with this. So, Toren, there was a question. I'm turning to you because I'm assuming you have the question. I do. Yeah. So the question is that, somebody's traveling to, the the person who who who gave us the question. They're gonna be traveling to the Middle East during Ramadan, and they're gonna be doing, some business with folks there and, you know, presumably, during kind of, you know, normal for them, for that person, kinda lunchtime. And so the question was essentially they're wondering, you know, because their their hosts there are are not going to be eating. They're gonna be fasting, not gonna be eating, not gonna be drinking water for Ramadan. They're wondering what they should do. Should is it okay if they eat something during their, you know, normal lunchtime? Is it okay for them to drink water? They mentioned I remember in the question, they were saying, I really need to drink my water. I don't wanna be dehydrated. So their question is essentially, what do what do I do in that circumstance? Yeah. That's a that's a good question. But you know what? I have a question first about this person. What are you doing going to do business during Ramadan in the Middle East? Yeah. I don't think they I think it was just planned for them. I don't think they had control or Well, whoever was whoever was scheduling things needs to get a little bit culturally tuned up. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm I'm gonna jump in and say that people don't necessarily even if they are aware of Ramadan, don't necessarily know that Ramadan isn't the same every year too, but it changes. Right. You have to follow the Muslim calendar because it does change. That's the lunar calendar, and so, therefore, it's gonna come up on the on the solar calendar, our calendar, at a different time every year. But it's not a good time to be doing business in a in a in a Muslim country, particularly an observant Muslim country, such as many are in the in the Middle East. People are just not tuned into those colleagues who are observant tuned into business because you're supposed to be self reflective. This is a time of spirituality. This is the time from from sun up to sun down where you're thinking about your role in with God and the cosmos and and and other people. You're not tuned in. And, also, it's a blood sugar thing. You're fasting from sun up to sundown. And so if you're trying to do business with people who are getting a little low on their blood sugar, it's just not pleasant. You know? People wanna go home and break the fast. That's what they're they wanna talk to you about business. Okay. Having said that, this person is obviously going nevertheless, And they are gonna be there during the day while their colleagues are probably going to be fasting. Alright. So the the the rule is you certainly, as a nonobservant or non Muslim, do not have to fast. You can go back to your international hotel and have lunch and and and dinner and breakfast. But if you're with people who are observing Ramadan, you cannot drink and eat in front of them. You just can't. It's not it's not the right thing to do. It's disrespectful. Now I I don't know what country they're going to. So there are many countries there, in that region that are very observant. Right? I'm thinking of Saudi Arabia. But then there are many that are very secular, and they know that non Muslims might not be observing. So if you I would take my cue from them. If they they invite you in, they sit you down and put a glass of water in front of you and they don't have a glass of water in front of them. They're trying to be kind to you. I would probably not sip it in front of them. Mhmm. But if you needed to, there it is. And and they're making a very nice and generous gesture by offering it to you. I mean, maybe they'll even wanna meet you at a restaurant. I I I can't predict that. But, again, it depends on the country. But I would say, generally, stay away from eating and drinking in front of anyone who's observing Ramadan. It's So probably this this listener should, make in their mind should be ready to to behave in that fashion. That's right. Because after sundown, though, there is a a celebratory, meal. Everybody wants to go home as quickly as possible to meet their family and friends to break the fast. Right. So, yes. And in fact, everyone oftentimes stays up late at night feasting with friends and family. I've I've I've had Muslim colleagues, you know, admit to me that, Ramadan, you don't lose weight. You gain weight because you stay up, you know, all night long party partying, beat a lot, and then go to sleep. Yeah. And then go to sleep and then, wake up before sun up to have a big breakfast Sure. To get you through the day. In order to be able to make it. Right. Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe they're actually putting on more calories than than not. Maybe. Yeah. But it's the timing of it that's important. Right. So if you're if you can't be eating or drinking during the day, then you gotta do it, at your hotel. You can't do it out with your colleagues. Right. Okay. Alright. Good. I think too, I would imagine anyway that someone who's traveling there for a relatively brief period of time could could potentially make the adjustment knowing this is a for that brief period of time. But somebody's going for a period of time. I'm saying that I'm guessing a couple of weeks might really have to consider what they're doing because it's not they're not used to it. Right. And and Ramadan is typically, you know, approximately a month long Mhmm. Again, depending on how the calendar falls. So that's a long period of time where people are are are deeply into this very special event. Mhmm. I mean, it's a major major, if not the major holiday in in the Muslim calendar. So Sure. Yeah. Not a good time to be doing business there, but okay. Well, it may not be something that they could put off. So Right. Right. Understandable in that sense. But, okay. Good. That's a and and we remind you too, anything like that or that you may have a question about, send him on in, and we will, you know, we'll ask Dean, and he'll give you something. And if you trust trust him at all, go ahead and follow him. Personally, I'd be very wary. We'll just make you sign a disclaimer. That's all. Oh, yes. By the way, we are not responsible for anything that happens to you. No. I'm certainly not responsible for anything I say. You've never been responsible for anything. That's for sure. And ever since I've known you, which is the year 4, wasn't it, I believe? Yeah. That's in the in the Christian calendar. Yeah. So, anyhow, we've got, there is the phrase. So so talking about Oh, that's okay. Interrupt. It's not a problem. Was I interrupting? No. I I don't mean to. You didn't mean to interrupt. I haven't heard that before somewhere. No. But you did me never mind. Go right ahead. Please continue. No. No. Okay. Good. I'll I'll continue. No. No. What were you going to say? Was that what you were going to say? I was gonna say what were you going to say. Yes. Well, in that case Who's on her? Right. So so in that case, here's what I was gonna say. Oh, okay. I was gonna interrupt you with what I was going to say. Are you I well You didn't have to ask. That seemed obvious, perhaps. Have you said what you're going to say? What was I going to say? I don't know. I have no idea. I just returned from a trip to, to the Balkans. Are you sure where you know where you went? I always have to think twice because there's a lot of trips in there. Former Yugoslavia, but broken up now into many independent countries. And and names that depending again on age and or interest in history have have been spoken about many times. There's a real chance that you've heard the names of the places. Oh, this is very important. This is a major cultural area in the world. It sits on a major cultural fault line, which is the cause of tremendous historical conflict. And and much of what we live with every day in terms of political reality is the result of the kinds of conflicts that have emerged in in the Balkans. Okay. It it's important to remember, for example, the capital of Bosnia, and Bosnia is one of these countries in that region, is Sarajevo. Yes. And Sarajevo, the 20th century began in Sarajevo. Mhmm. Right. But the in a sense, the beginning of World War 1 and the 1, the assassination of the archduke, which was just, of course, a a trigger. There were many factors, but factors. Right? Yeah. Began and it ended there in the 19 nineties with the with the wars, the Yugoslav wars most recently. Right. And the terrible, terrible conflict in Sarajevo. Right. So this is a major area that that doesn't get much, play in in the US, but nevertheless, we still have troops on the ground there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure people don't re other than people who have been in the armed services who'd be aware of that, but otherwise. So I'm traveling. We don't know that. The beautiful, beautiful country of Bosnia, Herzegovina. Mhmm. And it is physically just spectacular. Big mountains and and clean running rivers. It's just a beautiful place. And I learned that one of the foods that that people have is typical food is like these sausages. Yeah. A mound of them little finger sized sausages of meat, of minced meat. And and this is something that you typically have for lunch and you wash it down with a liquefied yogurt. Really? Yeah. Okay. So I was first of all, I'm not a red meat eater. So it was but I but I was gonna be there, and I was gonna try it. I was gonna say, what kind of meat are they? Well, it's it's not pork because there's a significant Muslim population in Bosnia. Okay. So it's it's mainly beef and and and chicken and, lamb, of course. Yeah. That was the main one, actually. And and it's spiced, and it's very tasty. And it's often served with this different kinds of dressing, IVAR, which is kind of a pimento kind of dressing. So that's very tasty. But when it was served with this liquefied yogurt, I had trouble with that. You had trouble with it because of the liquefied yogurt? Yeah. Do you think flavor was very tart for me. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't used to it. Right. I mean, people were eating it with gusto all around me, but I was having difficulty with it. When they're giving that to you, are are these separate things, or are these already somehow put together? No. You get a plate full of these sausage type things. Right. And and then you get Which I'm guessing look like what we would identify as, like, little wieners. Yeah. But without the casing, it's just Yeah. Just shaped into into a little little wiener size thing. Okay. And then you get a glass of yogurt with it I gotcha. Okay. To drink. It's a it's just a regular in a drink form. Mhmm. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And And you couldn't, do the drink. But, I mean, is that are we talking just was there something about it that popped up? First of all, I don't really even like milk. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So Okay. So you're a freak. So we, we just we go with that. I stopped drinking milk when I was 10 years old Okay. Until I I drank it. See, it was wrong. I'm super freaked. I I drank it as long as I had to. Okay. As long as mom said drink it. What did you use for a mustache on your upper lip? Oh, no. I didn't have to have it. I just Oh, is that at 10? Oh, yes. At 10. Oh, oh. What a man. Supposed to tell. What a man. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. We're laughing because we can see him. You should be laughing because the truth is I can't grow a beard, really. Uh-huh. I mean, it doesn't come in full. Uh-huh. I get little spots. You know? I get a little spot that that grows well, and then the rest doesn't. And it looks like I have the strange shape. Turning into a medical podcast, and I'm already disgusted. I'm I'm I'm not gonna be able to keep food down here in a minute when, well, I'm sorry about that. It's it's, About what? The the mustache or Yeah. About your inability to to grow bigger. The yogurt. And because, obviously, it it it reflects on your manhood. Yeah. We but you could bite the head off of a fish. Oh, absolutely. See? So there you go. And drink the blood from a cow. Well, let's let's go get a cow and tap it right now. And how brave was the first person to eat an oyster? Yeah. That's a good point. Yes. I mean, the the that's an old saying, by the way. I didn't come up with that. Is that right? True. Well, I grew up on the shore here in New England, and I don't ever remember hearing someone say how brave was the first man to eat an oyster. No. There's a lullaby. Oh, is there? That all New England children are are lullaby too. I don't That has I know one that wasn't. I'm feeling bad. I'm sure. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure. You know the little lullaby that went? Oh, you're gonna you're gonna give us a lullaby now, which which is fine. You're perfectly capable of singing. I'm not concerned about that. I'm just are we going to have to pay? This is what this is. This is about foods and and the and what to do at the table. What okay. What lullaby is this? Do do you really have a lullaby here, or are we, going down the road fantastique? Let let me go on here. Okay. How do you refuse something if it's presented to you and you don't you don't want it? How do you? I think if you know ahead of time and I think if if you do your research and you should do your research, if you know ahead of time the kinds of food that might be presented to you, then you can inform your your your host that ahead of time that this is something that is not part of your diet or you're not eating meat these days or you're not drinking alcohol these days, whatever it is. Right. And so everybody's face is saved. Everyone is spared the embarrassment of you not eating something that's served to you and you're spared having to to deal with that challenge. So if you can say something ahead of time based on what you might know, it's possibly going to be served, then making it even easier. Yeah. For them not to but if you do it in that situation, then you're saying most likely you will not insult your host if you if you mention something about your own circumstances, that you're there's a reason that you're doing it. The only thing I would say is you better remember what you have said at that point. You don't wanna later on undermine yourself by doing something that would, that you just said you couldn't do because of fill in the blank. Yeah. Right. Or at that point, you're I guess you'd be compelled to try it. Right. And Right. That's the worst that can happen. So Yeah. You know, if something doesn't look good, then just move it around on your plate and until so you find something that does look good. Sure. Let's take a break. While listening to this, you may think, hey. You know, I wonder well, if you have a question like that and wanna ask us, there's a couple ways you can do it. One would be through email, which is oops culture show atgmail.com. That's o0pscultureshow@gmail.com. And then there's also our handle on Twitter, which is oops culture show. That's o o p s culture show. I know. I know. It's not original, but but it works. Okay? There are some myths that we have to explode. Wow. That myth Woah. The myths of, you know, of how you're supposed to behave because there's lots of things we were discussing about unusual behaviors at the table, like putting the hood over your head when you're eating these birds from France and things like that. But but also, let's let's explode some, you know, go right ahead. Let's blow a few things up in France. Let's go for it. I'm a everyone thinks that the formal French meal is very fussy and you have to do things and you can't eat with your hands. Nonsense. Uh-huh. You have to eat asparagus with your fingers. It's probably one of the few foods in France in a traditional French meal that you can and should eat with your with your fingers. You pick up the asparagus. Now when you say you can eat them with your fingers, I'm assuming you to a knife and fork. Right. Okay. And you're meaning to pick them up with your fingers and eat them as opposed to eating both the asparagus and your fingers. Well, no. The the only way you can eat your fingers is by eating without a knife and fork. Or if or if you're in Vienna. I guess you could eat them with a knife and fork, but then thank you. Thank you, Taryn. Are we going back to the discussion was a little too high. A cannibalism. Flying over the roof of the of the building. We, when well, we've gone from sausages to fingers. I think that's a logical progression. Not a big leap. It's it's well, look at your own fingers over there. I'm, I'm So you can pick up, You should pick up the asparagus spews and eat it. Okay. So you're eating asparagus with your fingers in France too. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. There's a lot of pretension around many of these traditions that that this is the part that I'd like to explode. Perceived like if you go to Italy and you have to eat your pizza with a knife and fork. Nonsense. Well, really? I didn't know. Yeah. No. I mean, it depends on the size of the pizza and depends on the kind of preparation that the pasta is is. Right. But there are some places you would, but there are many places you would not. You would you would eat it the way you would expect to eat it, like in New York. I mean, you you get a slice of pizza from the Sicilian pizzeria, which is about as authentic as you can get Right. Down the street. And, you know, you're you're eating it, without a knife and fork. And and then I hope so. But then you can walk into some restaurants in America where they serve you a pizza, and they give you knives and forks and, like, nobody else is eating it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's Chicago, though, the deep dish pie. Like, that's that's already a a pasta in a class by itself. Well, it's not it's it's it's it's a it's a pizza that has morphed into something else. I think our and and I think our we may see our our our Northeastern, United States regionalism start to, start to show about that. Oh, no. The Chicago deep dish pizza is fantastic. Okay. It's just nothing like a traditional slice of pizza. No. It's not. So you of course, you have to eat it differently because it's it it is just a whole other thing. Right. But that the pasta thing, like, here's another pretension. Explode. Oh, hold on. Hold on. Now there's explosions going off. Pretension number 3, explode. You get a bowl of of pasta, and Uh-huh. You're you're supposed people think they're supposed to twirl. I'm sorry. Did you say bowl of pasta? I'm having a little trouble hearing you. My my ear is still ringing from the explosion. So And you think you're supposed to twirl it against the inside of a spoon. So you're talking like spaghetti pasta? But yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Like, we need fettuccine spaghetti. Right. Right. The long noodle type. Right. And you're supposed to twirl it against your spoon? Yeah. Yeah. Nobody does that in Italy. Well, okay. Twirl it against the inside of the bowl that it's served in. Well, that makes perfect sense. Well, you see of then why did it evolve into twirling against the inside of a spoon? Well, I'm going to guess that it there because in the US, you'd oftentimes, you get spaghetti served on a flat plate, which makes it much more difficult to twirl than if it was in a bowl where you have that rounded edge. Well, that makes sense, which makes the question and it begs the question, why was it served on a flat plate? And the answer is? Torin, could you look that up? Sure. Yeah. There was an Italian diplomat who was, stationed in New York. Yes. And he was stunned. He was he actually wrote it on purpose. Someone stunned him. Well, it's a diplomatic thing to do. Depends on the location in New York City. It's possible. Yeah. It could happen. But he wrote a note back home saying, I can't believe that in America. He was in New York, though. But he said, well, it's in America. Okay. Go ahead. They they put lemon peel in their espresso. Oh. And that's because this particular fellow was from Milan. Uh-huh. Northern Italy. Right. But the culture in New York City, the Italian culture in New York City is from Southern Italian immigrants primarily. Right. And Southern Italian immigrants, Sicily, Calabria. Okay. You have lemon trees. Mhmm. And so it's a nice touch to add us a piece of lemon peel to your espresso. Right. So you're talking we're talking little Italy, little Italy, which in Milan, we don't do. Right. You don't get espresso with lemon peel. I don't even know if there are yes. There are lemon trees around Milan. But but this but certainly, it wasn't the tradition. And he was stunned. He said, what kind of what kind of Italian tradition is this? He didn't know that in the southern part of his own country, that's how they served espresso, and that's how it was being served in New York. Sure. So for him, it was kind of strange and maybe pretentious. Right. But, you know, we still enjoy our Well, you know, I mean, way things are served throughout our country. Obviously, our country is much larger than Italy, but it's throughout our country. You'll find certain dishes. What we were talking about, deep dish pizza as opposed to the the the pizza that we have in the in the northeast, and so forth. That there's they just serve different ways. And here's the question. So you're holding your pizza slice of pizza? You're holding your pizza. And as long as I'm holding my pizza and not your pizza. Okay. The question We're talking about eating with our fingers again here. Now reading it with our fingers. Yeah. Not not not a knife and a fork. Okay. Certain politicians have I've really heard about it here. Now still the question comes up. Do we fold it or do we about the pizza now? The pizza slice of pizza. Do we fold it? Yeah. Like the sides, like you would make a a paper airplane? Well, I I don't think you wanna make a a pizza airplane out of it. Well, some people fold it. Well, yeah. And I think folding is is an acceptable way to handle usually, if there's if it's in danger of sliding off what's on top of it, the oils, the cheese, things like that, that's in danger of sliding off, then the fold, which goes lengthwise from the wide end to the narrow end, is is the appropriate way to do it. What if you ate it the other what if you folded it the other way around? And people have. I've seen people fold it the other way, and usually they become a mess. Yeah. It just kinda all runs out the sides because that's doesn't make any sense. And that's why we don't fold it that way. You know, like like a lot of like Ethiopian bread, I'm thinking it's making me think of that. Okay. You said it's this big round tray. Yeah. And it's and it's made to serve the entire table. Okay. And depending on where you sit, you're supposed to break off a piece of the bread and dip it into the sauces and the meats and all the other things and pop it in your mouth. Right. And it raises the rule. And this is not pretentious, by the way. This is a rule. I mean, it's practical. You, whenever you're served communally like that, whether it's a big tray of of one particular item or many different items, you only eat from the side that's in front of you. Don't reach over to another side, because that side is for the person on that side. Right. Right. And it just gets kind of messy in to to be eating other than just the area that's right in front of you. But a lot of people, you know, if you go to Ethiopia or you go to places in India where we're eating with our basically, communally like that, with our hands and and and communally serve food, they're reaching all over the place. You know? First of all, the food isn't any different in front of somebody else as it is in front of you. No. Isn't it, though? Yeah. Isn't it? No. It's not. Come on. You always got that little bit better thing that I did. The if that's if that's the case, it's because they're honoring you by giving you the the scarcest and choicest things. Okay. So what you're getting is still probably the better parts of the agency. Probably shouldn't reach over and grab that from someone who got it served to them by the host. It just seems really I'm just guessing on that one. But, you know It's worth mentioning. Yeah. I well yeah. And I did. Don't. Yeah. Okay. It's And in the Middle East and in India and the place that we're talking about eating with our hands here, you eat with your hand. Just one hand. The right hand. The correct hand, which is the The right hand. Keep your left hand in your lap. Okay. Just leave it in your lap. And there's and that follows more than tradition. Which means you're breaking the bread, you know, with your right hand. You're kind of, like, tearing it. Yep. Yep. And it's a little bit of a trick to do. So you're saying you're it's you're a one handed hand eater? Yes. A one handed hand. Didn't they have a song about that in the 50s? Using one hand eater. Yeah. Because otherwise, we're eating hands the way I said it before again. And You keep going back to that. I mean, maybe you know something about a culture where Well, there are there could be. You know? I mean, you might don't like you said before, just don't ask. You know? Because if you like what it tastes like, who cares? When yes. Sorry. Go ahead. Just the right hand. And you're eating with that hand, the right hand. Right. Which can be a little bit of a trick because if you break pieces Right. Bread, you know, you gotta, like, do it with your between your thumb and your finger and kind of tear it. There's a talent to it. You just get used to it. That's all. Right. And your hands are gonna get a lot of talent. What you're doing is you break the bread, then you dip it in the sauce, and then you pick up a cube of of lamb, let's say, or some veggies Mhmm. And you pop the whole business in your mouth. Yes. So the sauce is running down your fingers. Are we primarily back in the Middle East right now? We're in the Middle East. Yeah. This is a traditional way of eating, let's say, at a at a Arab feast. Okay. I don't wanna be that general. A Bedouin feast. Alright. Okay. Certainly in India and South Asia Yep. The traditional Indian meal is eaten with the right hand Mhmm. With the hands. You'd not serve cutlery. There's no knives or forks or anything. Right? In Southeast Asia, you can get your food served on a big banana leaf, not even a plate. Mhmm. So you just get a big fresh banana leaf put right in front of you. Yep. And then the food, the rice will be a little mound of rice and then some some of the meat, some of the veggies, some of the sauces. I mean, in those areas, bananas banana leaves grow on trees. Yes. You know? I I think they grow on trees just about everywhere. Do they? Yes. And in Southeast Asia, they're called banana leaf restaurants, actually. So it's an indication, First of all, you might be getting, it might be Muslim. Right? And Okay. And then it might also be you're gonna get food served this way. Mhmm. It's not even on a plate. Mhmm. It's not even with knives and forks. Okay. Your hands are gonna get messy. That's okay. There's usually a a sink, in the corner of the dining room where you can go and wash off your hands whenever We're in Southeast Asia now. Yes. Yeah. Malaysia. I see. We're really bouncing around the world today. Stay with me. Pack your keep your bags packed. I'm ready. Alright. Singapore, certain parts of Singapore, not the Chinese part of Singapore, but the the the the Malaysian part of Singapore. Yes. So, you know Well, that's kind of inter I mean, when you really think about that with the the whole concept of, you know, recycling, you know, that goes around, a banana plate, a planted leaf plate is is perfect. It's perfect. And when it's when you're all done, they just fold up the mess and throw it out. And it becomes fertilizer. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. So I have no idea how we got you. And you can lick your fingers because you got delicious Uh-huh. Rice and sauce and all sorts of things on there. Right. And it's fine. You know, some people might be thinking, why can they do they only use the right hand? And always only on the right hand. Because in these cultures let's see if we can do this with Yeah. You do that. We'll be we'll be back. We'll we're gonna go get something to eat while you figure this out. Before the advent of modern plumbing Uh-huh. And modern toilet conveniences. Yes. The left hand is the hand that's traditionally used for personal hygiene. Okay. All right. So and still today, you can walk into a bathroom and is basically there's no toilet paper, but there may be a bucket of water or or a hose hose, you know, and you just wash off and use your left hand and wash yourself off that way. Right? So you don't wanna then go back to the table and use your left hand to eat with or pass food with or and, traditionally, it's become you don't pass important documents with your left hand. Or shake hand or anything like that. That's right. Yes. That's right. Okay. Which may be hard to, you know, remember when you sit down to just sit on your left hand. Don't put your left hand on the table. Don't don't use it. Yes. Right. Don't coordinate it in. And that that yeah. That's a distinct difference between, Western civilizations primarily and and the other areas of the world that are are influenced by that. I mean, it and I I would think that's gotta be really, really important to remember when when you're involved in that area to to not do it. Because the other way around is there is no there's no real impact. If you just ate with your right hand coming here, someone might wonder why you didn't use your left hand. Maybe. But mostly, it wouldn't have any real impact. Right. Right. But the other way around would have could have significant impact. I mean, it's a general rule, right, that it does bend. Like, if your colleague reaches over to give you an embrace Mhmm. With 2 hands. Well, okay. Then then you can reciprocate with 2 hands. Mhmm. Right. But generally, in the course of a day, you avoid using the left hand for important important exchanges. Sure. Okay. Okay. And certainly at the dining table. Well well done because, you you know, we all have the the reputation for when we start getting into, like, toilet talk, or or lack of toilet talk, or lack of toilet. The, Talking about lack of toilet. Yes. That that we can I was going to say really jump down a hole with that, but that's probably a bad bad choice? Or did I just do that? I might have. Yeah. Sorry. I you know, it's my role. That's what I do here. It's probably time to take one last break. Okay. Listen. The way to get hold of us is oops culture show atgmail.com, and our Twitter handle is oops culture show. Whether this is the first episode or the third episode or whatever episode that you've listened to. If you're still listening at this point, I think you might like this. And if you do, you should really subscribe. Because if you subscribe, these things will just show up for you, and you can listen to them whenever you want to. That's the best way to go, really, honestly. I know what I'm talking about. Alright. So just subscribe through Itunes or through wherever you get your podcast from. But do it today. Okay? Subscribe. Thank you. But here's the other thing I wanted to mention. Yeah. Eating with the fingers. Yes. Right? Also a Hawaiian tradition with poi. Because what's poi? Poi is that that's the other rhyme I was looking for when we were talking about the Japanese toilet and the koi toy. Oh, the toy. Oh, yes. Poi. We're going back to episode 1 now. It's it's it's If you haven't heard episode 1, by the way, do yourself a favor. Go and listen to episodes. It's called Poi Boy. Poi Boy. It would be a poi poi poi. Is what it would be. And disgusting. I'm sorry if if anybody out there likes poi. I mean, I like poi too. You've now alienated the entire poi poi But but population. But not in a in a sandwich. You know? And Why don't why can we get a You know, see, you're jumping to conclusions. We've been here. We we could have You could not read a book by its cover or judge a book by its cover. Hang on. We could have a poi poi. Don't read a book by its cover. It'll be much too short. And you were talking about Much too short. You were talking about about fish. And a koi is a fish. A koi is a fish. It's a cod, isn't it? No. No. Koi is no. Koi is a is more like a goldfish. Goldfish. It's one of these big bulbous goldfish. Are you looking for lips again here? You you have a situation you need to talk to somebody about, I believe. We could have we could have a poi, koi, sandwich. Yes. We could. And the server is a The poi, koi, poi? Right. The poi, koi, boy, poi. Go ahead and say that to recapture that. Yeah. No. No. It's not. I speaking of lips, I just threw mine out right there. How do you put an ace bandage on your lip? You don't. You have to put it into the cast. Oh, well, yes. Koi is like a goldfish. We would look at it and go, oh, that must be a goldfish, but it's really a little different. But you see them a lot in decorative pools that are outside. Thanks. Thanks. That was the opposite of an explosion. I believe it was an implosion, and it's it's now a black hole that's sucking in everything around it. So Here's another Here he comes. Are you blowing something else up? Yes. Okay. What did I call those things that we've been blowing up? I have no idea. Pretensions. Oh, okay. Pretensions. Oh. Which is often what people do when they don't know the rules. So they think they're going to have to be super proper in what and whatever that means to them Right. In order to do it right. And so here's another pretension, right? In Japan, yes, you walk into a noodle shop, okay? And everyone in Tokyo is having lunch at a noodle shop or, you know, people. Right. It's very common. You open the door and you walk in, and all you hear is slurping. Right? There was a slurp in their noodles, and it's making that. And didn't your mother always tell you in the West, you know, yeah, chew with your mouth closed. Don't make noise like that. And that's a really rude to slurp when you're eat drinking soup. Soup. Eating soup, drinking soup. That's right. So noodles are often served in a broth. It's kind of like a soup. Very much so. Like, chicken noodle soup would be something we'd be familiar. Unaware Westerner would walk into a noodle shop in Tokyo and be done. Slurp fest. It's a slurp fest. Right? And, yeah, you slurp. Of course. First of all, it cools it down. Uh-huh. You may be you may be eating it hot, but there's also cold noodle dishes that Or it could be that the kois are all sucking up the water that they're in. So you gotta eat it fast before they do. Go get it. Yeah. You bet. It was it was explained to me quite earnestly that actually it tastes better when you suck air through Uh-huh. As you eat it, as the noodles enter your mouth. It just helps the flavor. Interesting. And and in fact, so does wine when you taste it when you're tasting it. You sip it and initially and bring it in with some air, it will exaggerate the, flavors. That's like a that's a wine slurp, isn't it? That's a wine slurp. Mhmm. By the way, Ernest Lee, wasn't wasn't he a senator from Louisiana? Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. He was, actually. And and his cousin Go ahead. It's all yours. That's gonna be cut. Right? Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. We've got people writing in asking me to set you up like that. Really. Well, I think, you know, we've covered a lot of lot of ground, and I think that, it's time to get out of here. It's still, oops. Your culture's showing. You know, we've been infatuated with food. The last podcast and this podcast Everyone's infatuated. If I may be. It's basic to life. Well, it's It's sort of like It's one of life's great pleasures. It is. The Chinese say, you know, that it is the it is the first great pleasure. Do they? Mhmm. Okay. Dean Foster, the, the person who knows more about cultures in the world than anyone else out there, at least that's what he tells us, and and who's been exploding all day today. I only say that because my publisher tells me that. Is that right? Yes. Well, that's good for them. Probably that's in the their best interest, but okay. And and that exploding thing, I'm thinking it's something you ate, which goes right along with the, with the what we're talking about here today. Look, your culture's still showing and that's what's going on. And you gotta do something about that. That's right. And thank you very much for that. And and and I'm still Tom Peterson and we Torrin, are you still here? I'm still here. Okay. Torren's still here, and and we're heading on our way out of here for this one. So, oops. Your culture's showing. Thank you. Smell you. Just wanna bother you one last time to say we're a brand new podcast here at Oops Your Culture Showing, and we could really use your help by subscribing to the podcast. And not to mention that if if you hung around this long and and you like what you heard, well, this makes it just easier for you to get the podcast. They'll pop up for you whenever they're released, so you can listen to them on your phone or your computer or however you listen to them. And it's easy to get too. Just subscribe using iTunes or wherever you get your podcast from. It really isn't hard, and we could really use your support. So from all of us here at Oops, Your Culture Showing, thanks.