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a sec. White. Thank you. - He's the man in the back of the room. He's told us presidents where
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production agency owner and meeting an event master. And Anthony Otta, she's his agent, 99, and you are about to be ified. - Hello and welcome to another
episode of Ified, the one and only podcast about
events, entertainment, and engagement. Today we give you part
two of our interview with Chris Lashua from Circ Mechanics. Enjoy the rest of the interview. I, so I have to ask,
uh, it feels like the, the elephant in the room question,
and I apologize for that. But we are such a litigious
society here in America. Yes. So, uh, talk to me about liability and is that an issue for you
that you come up against, uh, clients who want to use you,
but are just too afraid? Yeah. - So I think that, um,
it's absolutely an issue. And I would say this is, this
isn't just for us right now. In the past year and a half, Las Vegas has gotten
increasingly, um, I don't know, careful protective. Um, many of the big, you know, PSAV and Encore now have contracts with most of the rooms in Vegas and Encore and PSAV, their stipulations
right now for liability, they're at like 5 million. Um, and you essentially
what they're saying is, we don't want to do aerial
in the ballrooms anymore because it's prohibitively expensive. Um, and so one of the ways,
one, one of the things that actually could turn out
to be a good thing for us is what they're saying in the,
in these big, big rooms, you know, with the, I don't
know, if you're at the Cosmo and it's Encore, um, they're
saying like, it's 5 million. Uh, well, you go to try to get that policy for the day, right? 'cause they, it's really difficult now to even get the excess policies annually because they've gotten
increasingly expensive. Yes. And I, and, and, and
I'm sure this isn't just for circus, this is for all of us, right? We all know this. Um,
but in the variety arts and in the acrobatic kind of world, there's like probably
three underwriters, um, that write all the
policies that cover this. Um, and this was explained
to me about, um, a year and a half ago, uh, and I'm gonna get to your ha ha has, have we come face to face with it. Uh, and what had happened
for us was, is six months ago or so, a year ago, eight months
ago, it was time to renew. And, um, we got a, a letter that said, you're not gonna be renewed. And we're like, Hmm. Well,
that's funny. What happened? Um, and it turns out
that there was this claim that was paid, it was like 200 and something thousand
dollars claim by somebody that we had brought in on
stage to be an audience. Pla an audience participant,
brought them on stage in one of our theater shows in
a theater setting, right? Uh, brought them up the
stairs, brought them on stage, they do this clown bit,
and then that person left. And during the, the, the process
that they, they, they both, the people kind of get down on the knees and they stand up again,
and the person get down the knees, got back up again. And then, and then the, my, the after the show, the clown
said to me, oh, yeah, that person said, oh yeah, maybe
I shouldn't have done that. Whatever, you know, he shouldn't
have gotten on his knees. Got back up. Uh, and we
checked in with that person after the fact and
everything's fine, all that. Uh, but then like a year later,
um, there was a claim made for, I dunno, it was like $80,000 or something like that for this person to have surgery on a knee. Um, everybody knew it was baloney, but it doesn't matter, right? They know it's baloney. It doesn't matter. The, the, the insurance
company knows it's baloney. The people that we had a
relationship with 10 years, 15 years, knew it was baloney,
but because they paid out and this person had the claim,
and then it got elevated and they ended up paying
'em over $200,000. Well, in insurance there's
this, like, this factor, right? It's like anything over, I dunno, five times what your premium is. They're gonna cancel you, you
know, if you've got a claim. Well, in this case, that
was well over our premium. And, um, and our agent went to bat for us. And, um, and, but he said to me, he
said, look, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm gonna be straight with you. Like, if you got canceled,
it would be really difficult for you to find coverage. Well, as you could imagine, in any world, let alone in the world of acrobatics, if you can't get liability insurance, you cease to exist, right? Yeah. So that's a big problem. So he said, what we need
you to do is just, um, no more audience participation. So I, I said, where do I sign? You know, okay, fine, no
audience participation. So, you know, in our theater
show that's touring Zephyr now, um, that was a kind of a
design constraint, right? A design parameter was,
okay, now, when you're, when you're giving your
creative team these parameters, you need to do this, this, and
this, this needs to be, uh, an a, a comedic number that
has to do with something to do with this world, right? In our case, we're, there's the, the, the central character
is a, is a, is the guy that runs a windmill, and
he grinds wheat into flour. And so we could use, we could
use flour sacks, we could use, we, you know, these kind of parameters. Oh, and by the way, you
can't use an audience member anymore, right? Uh, and lucky for us,
um, our kind of dramaturg and the guy that's a, an
artist that I met on Cdu Soleil 20 years ago, um, he's been on all of our, the writer on all of our shows. He came up with an amazing
audience participation piece that is everybody in the audience and him on stage, and
nobody comes on stage. And it's a win-win. Um,
so, you know, I think that these challenges are
gonna continue to arise, and then we have to find
ways to address them. In the case of audience participation, we just worked around it, right? Um, in the case of aerial, um, our devices are ground supported. So when Encore says, if
you need to hang a point, it's gonna not only cost you
five grand for the rigors and another five grand
for the excess policy and another whatever, um, if
we bring out our own stuff and it's on the ground,
they go, oh, not our world. It's on you. Mm-Hmm, . So when you asked me
earlier, are we concerned? We're absolutely concerned because as I said, if
you have any incident, and I'm talking, if you
have one incident, um, that could be the difference between you being able to get coverage and not. So it's absolutely critical
that we keep people safe, which is why we don't
do anything if we're not sure that we're okay. Um, but, um, we'll see what happens in Las
Vegas and other markets. You know, I think that
what's gonna happen in a lot of ways is these ground supported systems. Like, and lucky for us,
it's one of the things that we developed with our
gantry bike, this trus structure that, that is able to
roll through the room. We u we've used these
devices in the theater world for practical reasons, because of course, in theaters you can hang rigging, right? They're designed to hang, right? Um, you know, battens
and things like that. But they're actually not really designed unless it's a custom built
venue for flying people. Um, so while we were able
to hang truss and use motors and guide them out with cables and keep it from moving around, um, it's, it's takes a lot of time. So once we realized that,
wow, this gantry device that we have that was designed
for outdoor festival use, if we put that on stage, we could build it from the ground up. Nobody needs to go to the grid.
We don't need chain motors. We just cut our load in the
truck by, you know, thousands of pounds and the rental
cost and everything else. And so it was a practical,
a practical answer that turned into something
really to be a, a great thing for us, because now consequently, every device we built for our theater tours
is now ground supported, which means we built it from the ground. We don't need riggers. It also means that in the event space, those devices don't fall
under the purview of, um, the, the rigging and the rigging
design and all of that and, and the liability that
is tied to the building because it's something on the ground. Now, will there be regulations that suddenly zero in
on that kind of thing? Probably possibly in the future. And that'll depend on whether people are smart about it, right? Because usually these regulations and stuff come from
people being knuckleheads and doing things they shouldn't have done in the first place. Yeah, - I was gonna say that's, that, that's part of the discussion, right? Mm-Hmm. And that's part of the issue. You hand off to somebody else, and you, you have to hope that the people that are under your employee
are following directions to the T and not doing something foolish. But then you also have an audience and you have to hope
that they're not going to do anything foolish. And if that happens and it ends up with somebody getting hurt, that's a tough case, right? Yeah. Because to your example, somebody basically got
off off of the floor and claimed that they were
hurt because they did that. - Uh, there's no, there's no defending it. - There's no defending, there
- Really isn't. Right? - It's just, it's just, uh, it's, it's really an occupational
hazard , if you will. Or it could be. Yeah. I mean, - It's one of those things
that you can't control. You asked, yeah. You
asked about occupational hazards in, in the beginning. And honestly, that is our biggest occupational hazard, right? Is, is the uncertainty of that. We are really, we're,
we're, we're attempting to do something that is
bringing something unique. That is, you know, that whether
it's in the theatrical world where we get to do some
storytelling and choreography, and we're doing something
that we, that is expressive, that we, that brings people joy. And yet any one of these people that decides to do something
unethical or sleazy or cheesy, can really impact
our ability to do what we do. Um, and there's really no
way to protect against that. You know, I ha I have this come up a lot with the American Circus Alliance. I mentioned earlier
the mentorship program, but I al we also have a touring committee, and we have other groups
that we get together and we talk about these
challenges in our world. And the answer a lot of times
is there's really no way to be 100% covered in our universe unless you stay home, right? Mm-Hmm. I mean, it's just
not, I'm not suggesting that what we do is not risky, but man, um, that is the thing that we struggle with the most, right? Because there's something that
I can't, we can only control everything that we do. Mm-Hmm. . But
we are in a public space, as you mentioned, uh,
uh, in, in, in these, in these ballrooms with a
bunch of people walking around and drinking and eating
and all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, we all know.
I mean, you know, it's, it's hard to control that. - And Chris, in the concert
world today, artists are having to beg their audiences not to
throw things at them on stage, which just boggles my mind. And, and I have to say,
I think about, you know, your people up there on mm-Hmm. on these roaming platforms. And, you know, I wonder is somebody someday
gonna just think, oh, it'd be funny if I threw this
watermelon at them, you know, - . Yeah. I, and, and, and you're right. So in the strolling, so, and, and that's why in the strolling
environment, so we have the, the tall tricycle, it has a railing on it with a safety on it. Um, when we're going over the audience and we have a ari list,
we have hand loops. I mean, we have things that we can do so that if some knucklehead does
something like that, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're gonna be. Okay. Uh, but you're absolutely right. And, and, and you know it, and look, I mean, it's
not just the drunk people, it's also people just have a way of sometimes not being smart about that kind of thing, right? - Well, you've got a
lot of people out there that are entitled and think, well, it's okay if I break the rule, 'cause I'm - Me. It's okay if I jump and try to hang on that trapeze that's happening, right? So we have to tie everything up. We have to make sure they can't climb it. We have to babysit these things, right? You can't leave a, a 20 foot
tall jungle gym in the middle of the room in a corporate party
and expect people to knock. I know myself, I mean,
you know, when I was less responsible, maybe I
would climb on that thing. As soon as somebody turned away and left the room, I'd be on it myself. So that helps us actually,
in some ways to protect some of this, because we're, you
know, we, we were, we were kind of knuckleheads maybe when we
were younger, so we're kind of on the lookout for people being delinquents as they get older. . So - Right side didn't even
climb trees when I was a kid. So, uh, , you won't ever have to worry about me climbing any of those contraptions ever, ever, ever. But how do you know
when an artist is ready to go out on a contraption? Uh, do you, you know, is there a, is there a point when you know,
this person's ready to go? They've trained enough? - Yeah. Yeah. And some artists,
some artists aren't ready. I mean, because it's not
every artist that is ready. Um, it's, uh, it's a, it's
a, a fair amount of time. You know, we, we don't, we don't show up and stick somebody that's never been on a device, on a device. Um, we have people all the time,
they're like, oh, well, we, you know, you're coming in
and bringing these people, but we want the talent to go all night, and so can we use our people
on your stuff? And I'm like, - No. Oh, gosh, ? Yeah. There's,
there's, you know, people, you know, sometimes they, they think that that's, um, gonna be okay. It's obviously not okay. Um, again, we, we start slow, right? Um, you know, the, the
devices that we have, um, we have a 10 foot plat, you know, it's 10 foot high on this tricycle with the railing around it. Um, and so if, if an acrobat can scramble
up the ladder right away with no issue, all right, well, they're, they're one step ahead. They're likely gonna need less time. But if somebody's struggling
to climb the ladder, you know, well, we might rethink whether we're gonna even have them up there usually. Um, we're not, we're not just
checking it out as they climb. We're not saying like, we, I wonder if they're okay, let's see what happens. You know? Like, that's
not the way we do it. Um, it's a, it's a, it's,
um, an additive process. We start slow. Um, you know,
we're not putting people, um, 15 feet in the air if we don't,
you know, if we don't know that they can, they've
got good ground skills and they've got, uh, the
capacity to kind of know how to train, know how to warm up, know how to keep themselves safe, right? Um, but you, but you're right in that, um, it is not a, it's not a normal process if
for us, it has become that way. So from the outside, it's
like, oh, how do you do that? Well, you know, it's like,
it's like in, I don't know, it's like in dance, you
know, if you're doing a lift and dance with a partner,
you know, you don't, you don't just have somebody
run straight at you full force and you throw your arms out and hope you're gonna be able to, you know, post them in the air. Um, you know, you, you train it, right? So as we do with the, with
the, with the artists. - So I'm curious to know if you remember the first time
we met or worked together. I have no memory. I just know that there is
this guy, Chris Lashua, who has a S wheel, uh, and is the wheel guy that
we call when we needed that particular act. And honestly, I couldn't tell
you when that started or, or how that happened. So I'm wondering if you remember. - Yeah, 2000. Um, so it was not a sea wheel,
it was actually German wheel, which was a, an apparatus
that came before. Sea Wheel is a single hoop, and the German wheel is actually two hoops connected with some rungs. So it's kind of like
if you take a, a ladder and you curve it around and
join both ends together, now you have this, this set
of hoops that are parallel, which allows you to do moves
like on the parallel bars and drop down like a coin, much like the steering wheel does. Um, but I had done this act for Cir Solei, as you mentioned earlier, Alex, and then I, um, when
I left Circ, um, this, the circ thing was huge, right? It was everywhere. Um, and
there was nobody doing this act. So I worked pretty much, I was hired gun for anybody that wanted that act. I was the guy they called. Hmm. Um, and we did a lot of work in San Diego. Uh, and at the time, it probably
would've been through Sam Drago or, or, um, or geez, at that time,
probably in San Diego, might probably Sam, um,
which is now Sam and Amy. Um, most of the work I did in
San Diego was through them, and I know that you, you did a lot of work with them as well. Um, so it was probably then, um, and that was, that was 2000 and 2000 till, till about
2006 or oh seven, I think. Um, and that was when I was
doing mostly the circ thing that has evolved, you know, now. And we do, you know, and,
and we have to be careful because as much as we're
talking about the mechanics, you know, we've evolved
and we do a lot of things that don't have anything to do with this. Um, I dunno, industrial
looking stuff, you know, we, we skin these devices with,
with flowers and plants, or we'll skin them with,
with branded vinyl material to transform the, the
gantry bike into an archway that looks like a, a dude ranch or a, or a New York City subway, right? Um, and, um, and so while the Circ thing, um, was where we likely connected first, I'm sure it was on a circ event, um, we still get those requests, right? But, um, but that's, that's
kind of changed and evolved too. - Have you seen, um, the market lose favor with Circ since it's been around so long? It's just not the new innovative
product that it was once? - Yeah, I think there's absolutely,
um, it was, when we say, and when we, when we say circ
in, in the event context, we, we think of the, the kind
of, um, almost cliche what has become the cliche
thing with the spandex and the full face makeup and
the gibberish talking, and the, and the, and the kind of
modern dance choreography, um, that still exists. And we still get those, those requests for proposals of that thing. Um, but so that's less hot, right? That thing. But the, the physical variety acts and acrobatics and the delivery of performance and all of that stuff
is still going strong. Um, and as you probably know too, you might have some clients
that say like, oh, we want, we wanna, we want some , but we don't want it, the
circ thing, we want it to be elegant. Or they'll use other adjectives, right? Rather than freaky and whatever. They'll say like, we want
something classy, or we want to, or we want to do, um, I don't
know, uh, rat pack, right? But we, but we're okay
with them doing acts, but we want it to be done
to Frank Sinatra, right? And so Circ is just the skin you put on the, the other stuff, right? It's the wrapping. It's
the wrapping, right? It's our direction, right? It really is. And, and I think that in,
in the event world, right? We have Circ and we have
industrial, we have Steampunk, and we have, I don't
know, greatest Showman, and we'll have hand,
you know, whatever the, whatever the hot, um, Broadway
show is that, that people, um, wanna try to bring
into the hotel ballroom. Uh, and acrobatics are really
involved in most of those. They're a component, uh mm-Hmm. , they're
a building block. And so our focus has shifted. And in the beginning,
we were trying to kind of shift away from that anyway, because we recognized that that
was a genre that in my mind, like they, like, why try to
do what this company had done? Right? Like, sure, we can
do it. Somebody wants you. It's kinda like being a musician and you wanna play, you
wanna play music, you know, you gotta, if you're a wedding band, you're not gonna play
original music, right? You're gonna play That's right. We, we as acrobats, were cover bands, right? We had to play cover tunes, we had to put on the face makeup,
and I had to wear the tights. Mm-Hmm. . And
I did that to pay the bills. But as I was doing those events with, with you guys in San Diego on the, on the Cirque style
events, we were developing and building the apparatus and the theatrical shows that would go and do, um, do the theater
tours that we've, we've done so much of, and that's a, a good half of what we do as a company. Um, our first show was, yeah, it was set in a factory
in the 1930s based on Diego Rivera's murals. We brought Diego murals to life, and with the chunky
choreography of this kind of working man on the assembly
line, and the mustards and ochre and greens, and the color palette
of the lighting design was pulled from those murals. And so, while I was doing the CIR thing, and honestly, I was done with it, right? I was done with it in 2000,
when I left Cirque Sole, I was like, okay, they've
been there, done that, it was great, but now I
wanna do this other thing. But people in the event world at the time, were like, we wanna do circ, - We want Circ. I don't care what you wanna do. Bills, - Bills, I need to pay my bills. Right? So I had no problem with that. You know, people are like, oh, yeah, but you're, you know, I
mean, look, I have to do that so I can do this. Mm-Hmm. ,
right? I did that happily. And I, and I, and you know,
somebody brought me in that I was the guy, as you said, because I could make that thing
sing no matter where it was. If it was a small space, it
was, you know, I had done it for so long, and it's all I did
that, um, I could make it work. Um, and, and I could put on the, the face makeup and do the thing. Um, but, you know, my brain and my artistic side was
exploring this other stuff. And, and, um, and to this day, um, that's,
you know, I mean, we, we as a, as event people, you know,
sometimes your client wants to do something and you
think, oh my God, really? You wanna do that? Oh, okay. Uh, sure. I mean, you know, say that,
but you're rolling your eyes going like, oh, Jesus, really? I gotta do another one of
these. Um, but you do it. Why do you do it? Because the
client is paying you to do it, and you gotta serve them, right? Mm-Hmm. , um,
if they want something, you gotta find a way to
maybe you put a spin on it and you to, so that you
can feel good about it. Sometimes not, sometimes you
don't feel good about it. Sometimes you give it, you give
them exactly what they want, 'cause that's what they
want, and you give it to them at a quality and the
caliber that you're proud of. But it's not how I would do it.
Uh, but I'm happy with that. Why? Because I get to do what I love to do in the theater world, and we get to build the shows
that we wanna build Yeah. Um, and do the things we
want to do. And so it's - Sort of the price you pay, right? I mean, Mm-Hmm. Absolutely.
To put it bluntly, it's, it's what you do to be able to
do what you want to do. And, uh, and so many people,
so many artists just don't get that, you know, going, you
know, having a, having a concert and only singing your latest
hit your, your latest album and not, you know, that your
hits that, that, that kind of mentality, it just doesn't work. You gotta, I dunno how get what they want. - I don't know how anybody
has any longevity doing that. Right. Because, um, because
you, if you're gonna be around you, you've gotta figure
out how to, how to do that. I, I don't know. That's right. Know, - I mean, Sinatra hated singing
my way, and I know that we - Did by the end. - Yeah. Yeah. And I know as a singer, there are certain songs
that you just, you've, as you said earlier, you've
been there, you've done that. You wanna move on as an individual. You want to grow, you
want to try new things, but you have to be so aware
of what the audience wants and be willing, willing,
willing to give it to them. It's why you're successful
and it's why you continue. Mm-Hmm. be able to do what, what it is you like to do. And that brings me to
Zephyr, which is one of five or six productions that you have now that is actually touring
or just toured the West. And it looks like it's going to the East Coast at the
beginning of the year and spring. Um, how did the tour go and, and what are you looking
forward to moving, moving into the, the East Coast? - Yeah. Well, so, um,
yeah, thanks, Zephyr. Um, it's the, so our, the
lifecycle of our shows, right? It's, uh, two seasons, right? So, uh, mostly 'cause the pa, the
performing arts centers, they want you back every other year. 'cause they're gonna invest in you, right? They're gonna invest in your brand. They're gonna market the show
the first time they have you. They may not make money.
They may lose money, they might make a little bit of money. Uh, so they wanna bring you back, and they don't want their
audience to be to forget you. So that means you've got basically every other year they want it. So for us, that means we have to create new content pretty regularly. So this is the second season of Zephyr. Um, Zephyr will conclude its
touring, uh, kind of run, um, in late March in California. And yet we do start back
up again on the East Coast. We're in Ohio. Um, the first
season we started up in, in, um, here, we started in
Vegas, then we do California. And then we came back in
the, we came back in Alaska and then did some more dates. Um, and the, the first part of the tour, um, we didn't feel it. So, so the, it, I mean, is
that the Covid thing? Right. I mean, so, um, when we
got outta Covid, most of the art centers were like,
oh my God, we can't wait. We're gonna program again. Right? And people are gonna come back. And this, this is what, 20 21, 22 Mm-Hmm. Fall 21. And we
did fine that season for us. We brought back our first
show for one season, which is our model now. We'll do a new show,
run it for two seasons, then we'll bring back one of our legacy shows for one season. And so that season after Covid, we had brought
back our first show, birdhouse Factory, and it
was really well received, um, as a show that we had
done for a long time. So we could recast it quite easily. And, and, and we, we didn't feel it. Um, the audiences were good, but in general, that season
was really hard on presenters. Like, that season after Covid, when people thought they were coming back, they didn't come back. Right. And we know about Broadway, right? I mean, it's still not back. And, um, and so a lot of these presenters that had taken risk, and
it said, we're going in, we're gonna do it last season, we felt that because they book a
year and a half in advance. So when that season in 21, when
they were going like, whoa, man, we didn't do as well,
you know, even though we, we've sold really, well, you know, we, we, we were at the New Victory
off Broadway in New York with Zephyr, and they had the
bestselling show with our show that they had since Covid. So, and I don't know why that is. Um, they have a really great relationship with their audiences. Um, but, you know, that
makes us feel good. But it also insulated us a little bit from how theater was struggling
in some of these markets. And so what happened
was, is that the season that they all struggled,
w then they were booking for the season that we just had. And so they all pulled back. Sure. And so what did that meant?
So that meant that our, our fall was, was light. Right? We did four weeks instead of like six weeks in the fall. Um, it doesn't sound
like a huge difference, but when you're doing 12 weeks a season and you lose two weeks, it's a pretty big, it's a pretty big challenge
for us as a company. Right. And we're creating
original content. We're, you know, we, we, we, we write record. The music's all original. This stuff is not, you
know, it's not cheap. We have, we, we do it affordably because we have access to
the, these amazing people that have grown up with us. And now they're in high level
jobs, making good money for, you know, people like our,
our composer Michael Pickton, just composed for the new
Ringling Brothers show. Hmm. I mean, and they pay
him a bunch of money, uh, and he's able to do our
projects 'cause we're friends. Um, but it costs money, right? It's expensive. And so
and it's all - Upfront cost, by the way. Oh, - Yeah. It's all upfront. And we don't,
and we don't have investors. We don't have, you know,
it's my, my wife and I, and we finance this
basically on the strength of the fact that the tour's gonna sell. And so we, you know, finance it out. We can creatively, sometimes
it's a, a bit on credit, sometimes it's on, you know, the money we make in the
event space goes right into the theater show. Right? And, and then
the show goes out there and, you know, we're
able to invest the money because the tour is booked in advance. Right. So we know we're
gonna have this many weeks. So this past season was, was harder. Uh, you asked about, you know,
how was it, it was tougher. Um, we, you know, I mean, I, I would've liked to have
a couple more weeks. We did many of the venues
that we had done before, but we had, I don't know, out of the dozen or so venues we did in the fall, four of them were brand new,
or maybe even more. Five or six of them were
brand new, like a, a, a large, a large number of them were new. And that's due partially to
the fact that at our agency, because of the shakeups of people moving and changing Mm-Hmm. Over the past year and a half. Mm-Hmm. , um, we had a,
we had a present, a person that was a presenter that
moved into as an agent. And, and I think agencies are kinda like real estate in some ways. They have their, or, or, or corporate or corporate salespeople. They have their own clients,
right? And so, Mm-Hmm. , suddenly
we had these theaters that had never, we'd never
been a breakthrough before. They didn't, they didn't book. They didn't, they didn't get it Right. They didn't wanna try it, whatever. And so, so that's been great for us. So we had some new
venues, which was awesome. Um, and that's encouraging for me, right? Is that we continue to
find these new venues because, you know, we've been
touring in the arts market for 15 years Right. And we're going to, we're
going to some places, you know, where Hamilton was just last week, and then we'll go to other
places that, that, you know, is a, I don't know, 500 seats,
but the, they've got no tech. They've got, you know, like
they've got, you know, 40, 40 lights from 1950s. Right? Right, right. You know,
we, I've been there. Yep. Couple park cans. Yep. And
there's still a lot of that. And, you know, and we, so we play everything in between, right. And, and, you know, we, we have to say no to some venues, of course. But as an arts organization,
if you want to tour, really, you gotta play just about every place. You have to find a way to make it work. And we've got an amazing team of people that can make it work, make it look good, make it a show that we're proud of. And, and, you know, 99 of a
hundred venues there, there's a, there's one venue every once
in a while where you're like, oh, God, don't film this. Don't, let's not, let's
not catalog this one. Um, let's just
don't bring the camera. We don't need it on
the audience. You know, make sure the audience has a good time, but we're not gonna, we're not
gonna keep it for posterity. Right? Right. So, so that's,
that's been a challenge. Um, but, but, um, but
we, we've got new venues and we're, we're looking at six weeks in the spring, which is great. Um, we start on the east coast, then we finished back in California. Um, we have some kind of
exciting prospects for, for Zephyr and for the theater shows. Um, uh, at the beginning,
um, you mentioned that we, we bought our own circus tent. And so we're, we're, one
of the things that we did during Covid when, you know,
we were kind of shut down, is we looked around the landscape and we're like, how are we gonna do, how are we gonna continue
to do what we like to do? And, um, and there were a
couple of, uh, circuses, small circuses that were
doing really well, um, when people decided they
wanted to come back. And that could be partially because people were like, well, it's kind of outside, but not really. Mm-Hmm. . But
we feel more safe. Mm-Hmm. For whatever reason, right?
Mm-Hmm. And it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter whether it's
real or imagined. Right. Whatever it is, whatever, whatever reason. Um, and some of it is nostalgia,
some of it is, you know, and it's part of what some ate
did in the beginning, right? Is they, they created, they made it cool to go inside a circus tent. Uh, and it, and I think it's cool again. And, um, and it's a unique experience and it's something that is, that's a little bit different
than theater in the sense that we still have all
the stuff that's live. Um, but in this world
of like immersive stuff, there are a few environments that are more immersive
than in the round, right? Mm-Hmm. like,
like, you know, the time of Shakespeare in the round. I mean, you're the
audiences around you, uh, and audiences feel the show in a way that you just don't feel
in a Presidium environment. And, uh, I think that's one of the reasons that it, it works. And so we're excited about that and terrified about that
because, you know, sure. In that universe, we have to self-produce, and we, we, you know, we'll find partners, but, uh, unlike in the
presenting world where, you know, the agents book the show and the theaters give us a guarantee, and we don't go do that week unless we have guaranteed coverage to cover our costs for the week. Um, but when you're
gonna throw your, your, your set up somewhere
and try it on your own and pay for everything,
uh, it's terrifying. And I need to let, I need to
try to, you know, we, we need to knock down the risk as much as we can. Uh, but then on some level,
you just gotta find a way to get comfortable with it
and stomach it and try it. And we've, you know, we're, we're, we're excited about
doing that next season. We've got a couple of
opportunities to do that. And we're, we're gonna be
taking our theatrical shows, and this will extend the life
of our theater shows, right? Because, because they'll have
a life in the arts market for two seasons, and then
we may be able to take them and put them in the tent
and to do another season. Um, which gives us the ability to give our artists more
work, which of course is key, because as the theater market,
if it continues to contract and shrink, we need to
find another outlet. And if people are not gonna
stop, um, being entertained or wanting to be entertained, yes, we all watch more
Netflix than ever before. And yes, we don't go out as much, um, but people are, people are still gonna want to do those kinds of things. And so, you know, we're trying to be there to give an opportunity that some that's a little bit different than what maybe they're used to doing. And, um, we'll see. - Something comes to mind, uh, and maybe I'm completely off base, but I've gotta ask, does
the, when you're laying down or when you're touring, does
that actually help you to, in your preparedness or readiness for corporate
dates for one-offs? - They, they both feed
each other so well, right? So sometimes it's just because you, you get to, I mean, just on the talent level, right? I, you know, we, we,
when you're on the road, you mentioned you toured, you
know, there's no better way to get to know somebody, uh,
than to have to be, you know, doing 16 hour days and getting
in a minivan or overnight and, you know, going
through what you go through. And in some ways, that will just bond you in, in a way, like nothing. You know, it's like going through any kind of hardship it sounds like, you know? Um, it's not like war, right? But, but it does bond you in a way that is just, uh, incredible. So you really get to see
what people are made of. Uh, and those people, um, those are the people you
wanna support and help, right? Uh, and so, so when we go into
the corporate setting, um, we've, we've had to, you know, corporate is not known for being generous. And, you know, nobody wants
to give away their ballroom for three days before your show. Right? Nobody, I want you
to slam it in that morning, and you do it that night and
you get the hell out, right? Right. Um, and you know that, and we've all, we know
what that is, right? We, we, as people in the event world, those are the parameters. We know what they are. And if
we don't, if we, we design for that, we think for
that, we build for that. And sometimes you get a little ambitious and you're like, Jesus, we really could use the night before. And then you gotta go back and negotiate to get the night before,
so you get it, whatever. Um, so, but being on
the road, you know, and, and having to design
in a theater, we load. And so we've got a 26 foot truck. All of our shows are designed
to fit in a 26 foot truck. They need to be loaded and built. They need to be built by coffee. That's two hours for people. You know, in the, in the, in
the, in the, in the equity, in the, the union world. Two hours. It's either
10 o'clock or 10 30. You know, we get in, in at
eight and by 10 it's coffee. And I gotta be built at coffee. Why? Because I have to give this,
I gotta give the stage back to the lighting guy, because
the lighting guy's gonna want an hour longer than he
has every day anyway. But he's gonna, he's gonna
take what we can give him, which is from, from 10, 10 o'clock, if we stagger the breaks, 10, 10 o'clock. And he goes until one,
when the artists show up, artists do spacing for an hour and a half, they adapt to the space, and then we do a tech through
for an hour and a half, and then it's dinner, preset doors do the show
and get outta the building. Right? Um, that, that's
kind of like corporate. And so, uh, we kind of
know how to do that. Now, not everybody that does
that can handle the corporate, because in corporate, unlike in theater, you're walking into a ballroom. And yes, you may have union crew that knows what they're doing. You might have people
that are really prepared. You might have all those things, but most of the time you don't. Uh, and so we design for that. And so, most of the
things that I've discussed with you guys, we know that,
we know that when we show up, we're not gonna have any support. And part of the reason people
hire us, right? We're turnkey. You bring us in, we're gonna be able to do everything we need to do. If it's a stage show,
we just need to stage. If it's the, if it's one of the devices, just give me a place over there on the corner and I'll build it. 'cause I can roll it around later after you set up the room, right? I just need a clear space on
the floor. We don't need labor. We don't need any help. We
don't need any overhead rigging. We don't need that
stuff. So we designed for that environment, um, because we've learned, um,
from being in that world and, and, and the event world
helps us in the theater world, sometimes we built something
for, for the event world, and we end up using that in a
theater show, much like we do with the gantry bike, uh, and some of these other devices. You know, - Have you ever been in a
situation when you've gone to the ballroom, you've
started setting up, and as they're setting up the
ballroom where you see, oh, wait, there isn't going to be
any room for us to move this around because the planning
was poor or non-existent. And if so, how do you, how do you rectify? - Yeah. Um, I, well, um, if we've done our job right, we've
had the communication with our client so they know
what those parameters are. And so when somebody
starts setting something up that's in the way, we
right away go to them and say, Hey, you remember
we talked about something? They go like, oh my God. And, you know, they
might've forgotten, or, or there may be a piece
of decor that's, you know, as we talked about earlier,
they may hung a chandelier or some kind of overhead drape or something that's going across the path. And we have to walk in the building and be looking for all
those problems, right? Mm-Hmm. We have to expect them. I know we're not unique like that. I think any, anybody that's
doing the event we're, you know, you walk in the door, you're looking for what did they, the problems,
what have they done? You know, what have
they done? Right? Right. Did they, you know, is the
tru, is the truss at trim? Are the projectors hanging down too low? Are they gonna, you know,
are we gonna get shadows? And are they gonna shoot
through that that is that, are they really hanging that decoration right in
front of the projector? You know, like, you know,
the more on it you are, the quicker you see those things,
the better chance you have of fixing 'em in such a way that doesn't cause real problems. Yeah. Or that anybody
can really see later. So if we've done our
homework on the front side, sometimes we don't have
the, the opportunity, right? 'cause we're three layers removed and the communication game Right. Just doesn't work. Right.
Right. And that, that, that happens to all of us. Right. Um, so, you know, we
just have to be really, really, when we walk in the door, we need to be looking for all that stuff. And just like anything else,
you know, you walk in the room, you make friends with
everybody, make sure people know who you are, that you know what their job is and what they're doing. And, and, and that way
an hour later when, when that lighting guy's putting
a boom right in the way, you can go up to 'em and call 'em by name and say, Hey man, uh, you know, uh, this is gonna be our path rather than, you know, we're setting up over here. And then later somebody goes
up to, the guy goes, Hey, you gotta move that because we're, you know, no. Like, I mean, - No, no. You know, and it's, it's, - It's, you gotta play nice. - It's, you do, you have
to play nice in a theater. You are the only game in town, right. But in a, in an event, right? You have to work with the
other stakeholders to make sure that everybody is getting their job done. And it's, it's a very different animal. - Well, and, and I think artists can get into trouble in that way, right? Because especially entertainers, right? In general, like, and you know,
I mean, look, all of us, you - Already have a reputation. We - Yeah. Well, and or, and, or you just look and you, you need, you need to understand this isn't about us, right? And these events, like,
look, it could be about it. It, it's all about whatever
the, the theme of the thing or the, the sales or the CEO's
ego or who knows what, right. The thing's really about,
but it's not about us. I mean, enter entertainers
are like, look, we're, we're like a lot of candy and
window dressing on this thing. We're trying to make it pretty,
we're trying to make it fun, but they're gonna do this event without us if they have to, right? Mm-Hmm. , I
mean, at the end of the day, they're gonna be like, look,
uh, we need this PowerPoint to happen because I need to
show our sales team the numbers. You guys are just, you know, and you can't get upset about that. I mean, as much as we, we
take our art seriously. We take the thing that
we've worked our whole lives to make it beautiful,
to make it compelling, to make it whatever, but
when they say, uh, yeah, I know you, I know we told you you would have four minutes, but you got two. All right, fine. I got two. You know, give me the, you
know, give me the track and we'll go re choreograph this thing
and we'll give you two. Um, you can't get upset about it, right? I mean, if you c you, you can look and we all get upset about it, but you have to just throw that, you gotta put that in check right away. Because I think if you
understand your place in that ecosystem, you're gonna be, you're gonna have a much
healthier ability to, to, to deal with all the bologna, right? Because there's gonna be some, um, - There, there absolutely
is going to be some. And, uh, you know, I think both of us have been in the industry
long enough that we know before we go into a project,
what we have to look for that could be an issue
later on that the client or the third party or whomever it is, just
isn't thinking about. You know, one of the things
that comes to mind is the fact that ceiling heights
in these ballrooms are often miscommunicated. Or, uh, you know, the hotel
will publish a ceiling height that's the actual highest
point in the ballroom, but doesn't account for the
fact that there's soffit or chandeliers that hang lower. And, you know, those are
the things that you have to be aware of or think about in advance that could actually make or break the, the event for
you, for the performer, right? And it's just the kind of the thing that you get from experience
and, and having been there and seen it happen, uh, I
can't imagine it's easy. And you, you know, I I I say
this with a lot of compassion for somebody like you, because you have to think
about all those things and deal with them in advance to sometimes even know
whether it's gonna be possible for you to be a part of something. - Yeah. And, and you have
to build in the, you have to build in a little bit of like, um, when they tell you it's 18,
you have to kind of go, okay, well, if it's 16, I get, I need to know. We need to have a good plan. Um, you, you asked earlier about how, how has the theater world and what you learned there,
um, I don't know, helped you. Um, we bring, we bring a disto, a laser measurement tool, right? So if I'm not sure, stick that sucker underneath the chandelier, and
I could tell you it's 18 feet and three and a half inches, and I know I'm clear by
two inches, I'm good. Right? Um, but in the beginning,
you don't do that, right? In the beginning you just go
like, ah, we need 18 feet. Oh, they said it's 18 feet, we'll be fine. And you get there and
you realize it's you, you build a thing and then you realize, oh, no, it's not 18 feet. It's 17. They said 18, but it's actually, it's
actually 17 foot 11. Right? That's not 18 feet.
And we, that's not 18. And our devices, I
mean, I, I'll, I'm fine. Like if they, if I know
it's 18 feet and, or, or it's, if my, my device is
18 feet, we tell, you know, our, our devices, we tell people it's 20. It's actually not 20,
it's 19, 11 and a half. So if they gimme 20, I'm fine. Like, as long as I'm not rolling
over a cable bridge, right? Which is another two and a
half inches, I'm good. Right? Right. But we have to know this stuff and that, just as you said with experience, that just comes with it. I mean, you know, woe was me.
That's just part of the job. That's not a, that's not
a, it's just part of it. Uh, and, and it, and
it's just a part of it that we just don't, we don't bemoan it. It's just one more thing that
is something we gotta deal with and, and is, and, and, you know, as long
as you're plan for it and you have the conversations upfront, and as you said, um, you
know, you on an event, I might be working for Alata,
who's then working for, I don't know, some DMC who's then working for somebody who's, um, but the more of the yous
that are, you know, if, if I'm working an event with
somebody like yourself then, and we're both in the
room, then there's less of a chance we're gonna
get egg on our face. Right, right. Walking
around with you and, and, and, you know, and then I know Jacqueline or any of these other people
that we know, like people that have been around for a while, there's less of a chance now. Do we still have issues? Of course we do. Um, but it, it's like
the team thing, right? Our team, when we're in the
invent environment, it extends to, you know, we've got our, our team and then we have the extended
team, which is then, you know, the people that are bringing us in. And the more times we've
worked together, the more, you know, more intimately
what our needs are. Mm-Hmm. , you, you're gonna do the same thing I would do. You're, you know, I don't have to tell you or ask you, can you check
the, that that balloon, they're gonna hang in front,
that balloon drop netting. Can you check that for me? No,
you're gonna think of that. So, you know, as we do it more and as we work with people
who have been around longer, we have better chance
of not screwing it up. Uh, but, you know, we still get surprised. Uh, but the difference, the difference, the real big difference there
on the experience level is, um, is that nothing ever goes
exactly the way it's gonna be planned as, as it's planned. But the more experience, the
higher experience level, uh, the better chance you have
of nobody, nobody, you know, of you being able to just rub, rub it off, and just be like, oh no, we
know how to deal with this. We've been here before. We've
seen this problem dressed up a hundred different ways, and
we know how to address it. And - That's, and I have to
say, you do a really, really good job of trying to
communicate the dimensions of the contraptions, how they
move, how they look, uh, in, on your website, uh, circ mechanics.com, you do a very good job. You have a page dedicated
just to the contraptions. And any potential buyer
out there can simply go to those pages and learn
about the dimensions of them and get a bit of an idea of
how they work in advance. So, you know, kudos to you. That took a lot of work
and time ensuring that that - Was, that was, that was Covid. . - Oh, there you go. . That - Was Covid. It was like, what am I gonna do? Right? I mean, you know, like we all,
some people learned another language, some people, whatever, you know, uh, I went to the gym. I, I figured out, like, I
kind of looked at the website and went like, okay, what are we, what information do people wanna know and how can we give it to them in a way that they can digest it? And you know, as we, as
we are around longer, we have relationships with
people like yourselves who we can, I can just call and be like, Hey Anthony,
can you take a look at this? 'cause I, I think, I think this
makes sense, but, you know, and, uh, and so we, we've gotten, we've gotten better at asking,
um, just like we do in our, in the creative on, on stage or, or in the event, on the
building, the apparatus. It's the same thing for
marketing this stuff and trying to run these
things as businesses. I mean, the arts, most of us that get into the arts,
were not business people. Right. As if we were, we'd run away, we'd run the other way. And That's - Right. Do something else. Right? . So - Those of us that run these
companies, uh, have to kind of it's a school of hard knocks. And, uh, and, you know,
well, we again, been around longer, we've got
more people we can lean on, you know, more, more of our
friends that have figured it out or have addressed these things. We talked about insurance and
liability, you know, I mean, I have people call me that
because they know we do this, and they'll say, Hey, who do you use? And so we share that information. We're trying to help our
friends out and, and, and, uh, yeah, build that
kind of community of people that we trust, which is key. - Well, I think that's
why you're so well loved and you're so successful in what you do. Thank you for being on the
podcast with us today and, and sharing some of the ins and outs that you deal with,
uh, running Circ Mechanics. Uh, and thank you for
being such a valued partner and also a really good representative of the arts community, uh, doing
it right, doing it well, and, uh, making people feel joyful. It's really what it's all about. Thank, - I'm glad you, uh, thank you for saying that about the arts. I, I, I actually had a,
uh, if you don't mind, I'm gonna answer a question
that you didn't ask me, and that is one, what is one change you'd like to see in the world? This is part of your, - That's right. I did not, let me ask you, - . Okay, - Good. Just ask, what is one change you'd like to see in the world? Well, - Because you brought
it up, um, , uh, so it's actually not the world. It's in the us but I, I
want to focus on the US and that is, um, for me,
um, I would love for circus, um, to be seen as an art
form, much like it is in most of the rest of the world,
in Asia, in Europe. Um, and the way to do
that is we have to elevate what circus is, and it's changed. It gets evolving, right?
So that's the first thing. And, uh, and I, and I, I do
my part in that by, you know, I'm among the, I'm a founding board member of the thing we called, it's called the American Circus Alliance. And so we have this
community of circus producers and promoters and artists,
um, that's growing. And, um, we have monthly meetings and we share and help each other. And then the other thing
is, um, I, I, I heard, um, Steven Van Zat, um, who was,
uh, Bruce Springsteen's, like, you know, right hand man con
siglia for all these years was, was in a show, uh, a couple of days ago. I saw it. And it's something that I feel, but he articulated in a way
that I thought was really great. And he said that, um, that
America is like the only if that one of the only kind
of civils western nations where art is seen as a luxury. And, um, and that should change. Yes. And I thought, wow, that
that's absolutely true. And as we talk about, you know, 'cause people can say like, oh yeah, but you know, we need to eat. We need to, we need to work,
we need to do these things. But increasingly, we're being
made more, made more aware of mental health and, and,
uh, and being a full person. And to be, to be kind of a, a positive member in the community and a family, you know, be
able to support our families. And I think that the arts,
um, help us to do that. And, um, so for me, um,
you, I'm, I, I'm thrilled that you brought up the arts thing. I'm joking when I say, oh, because you asked me, I'm
gonna answer it, but mm-Hmm. . Uh, but you did
bring up the arts part of it, and I, I'm really happy
about that 'cause um, 'cause I think that it's
something really important to me. And, uh, and, you know, it's
shaped so much of who I am and what I, and I'm happy
to get to be, be doing it. Um, you know, in some way. Um, I get to be be touching the, the arts, um, almost every day - Part of our humanity. Uh, without the arts, we lose that. Yeah. We risk losing our humanity. It teaches us many, many valued lessons. Thank you so much for joining us. Uh, we can't wait to work with you. Our fingers are still crossed
for our January booking that we are moving Me
too, to a bigger ballroom with more head space, so we
can bring you aboard, which is what we're all trying to do. Yes. The end client
included. Uh, so right on. Yeah, keep those, keep,
keep thinking positively. And, uh, thank you again for
joining us today, Chris Lashua with Circ Mechanics. Thank - You. Pleasure. - Hey, thank you for listening to ide. If - You haven't already,
please like and subscribe - And remember to leave us your questions or comments at otta.com/podcast. - Bide is a production
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