Brandon here with a quick show note before we begin, due to the very visual nature of the subject in this episode, you may want to consider watching the Youtube version. By all means listening to the audio version, it's fun too. He Let me know when you're ready. I'm ready. On Here we here we go. Welcome to the well. I am Bright Agents, and I am Manson Mount. And where are you right, now ma'am? I'm in Germany. This is a very busy month for me. We're not only shooting the last episode of, season 3 to our drive, but I am I've been called to Germany for a convention, and I am extremely tired. I'm extremely jet lagged, and I've had a couple of drinks, so this is gonna be fun. It is gonna be fun. Look... I'm joining you all the way from me here. 6 hours. Right. So 6 hours behind you, ma'am, and I'm trying to catch. Yep. So, and you'll notice that I have chosen to where a tie for the first time. And that is because 1, I feel pretty. Number 2, I am dressing to impress because I want to impress the coming robot overlords. Which will eventually be watching this episode and digesting it on the Internet. And, this is a job interview. So, hey, guys. I'm on your... I'm on your team, man. I'm on your team. No. To today, we... We're we're gonna wait into a slightly controversial... Subject. I didn't think it was that controversial, but it turns out it is. We are taking on Ai not all Ai ai is such a big word. I think people are... You kinda have to break it down a little bit, you know, by sector to discuss it. But we will be discussing Ai in the in creativity, specifically, visual visual arts. Filmmaking, picture making generative Ai, they say. And when you touch on this subject, it brings up a lot of pretty strong feelings from a lot of people. And Does... Yeah. What how did you feel about it before, you know, say we talk to Rope. You know, it's it's it's definitely the buzz word of year. Yeah it is... I feel a lot of ways about it. I mean, as an act 1 as a human 1. We're definitely feeling the potential repercussions of it in my industry, obviously because of what it can do in terms of, making imagination come true, very easily, but it's it's it's something that, I was just how many having a conversation this evening with an art director from the world of Star trek who introduced me to this concept of the uncanny valley. If you heard about this? Yes. Yes I have. Yeah. So the uncanny valley is, this phenomenon that happens with us when we... Anything that p ports to be human. That when it becomes close to human, we start to have rev. So for instance, if you put... If you put on a on a charge, on the x axis, our empathy towards the thing that looks human. And on the y axis on excuse me. So so sorry. The thing that how does it go? The the x, the y axis is our empathy towards something and the x axis is the closest it looks towards it being actually photographic. K? As you get as you get... As you go towards human, it gets, it goes up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up. The more it looks like human. But when you get close to it being exactly human, but not quite human. It plummet. We have an immediate rev. Look like, what is that? It is not human. And the most... And there are a lot of lot of theories as to why we have this response as human beings and the most interesting 1 that I've come across, is that it's a hold over from when there were multiple species of h. When... There were not homo sapiens, but there were homo, Homo, there was pom. There were multiple species of people. That were not our species that we were constantly in conflict with. But they look kind of, I guess, and that that something in that feels true to me. I'm not sure if it is the explanation, but it feels right. I disagree. Okay. What's your theory degree? Oh, I have to replace it with my own theory. I thought just. Yes. I thought I could just disagree to disagree. No. This is mine. I think we're such... I mean, I don't think people understand how what expert face readers we are. As a Yeah. A species so much comes to our face. We are so weird. This is why you stare at anything long enough wood grain, clouds, a bag of trash, you start seeing faces in it because we are... Yeah. Face recognition machines. We're so good at it. Sure there's so much animals. Right? Totally. The most social what even more than ants, because they don't have faces. So, oh, just stop myself from going up an attention, Okay. I'm back. Faces is not chemicals. So it's not pheromones mo. We do it with faces We're visual. Because you can do that at a distance, and that's important. But if anything is wrong, and I'm thinking it's not... A hold over from way back when with multiple species. I think it's disease. I think it's the sign that something is wrong with somebody. The first thing we think of is disease. This person is injured in some way. They're sick in some way. And that lisa fact spray he. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that leads all kinds of other fear legends and myths, you know, like vampires and were and or where disease calls is weird behavior. We're just simply... I I think maybe we're overthinking it, as simple as those moments before death, you know, when the animation in life has gone out of someone's face, and we'd know what that means. That's, you know, we recognize death when it's coming, and it's that close. And I think that when we look at these sort of not perfectly rendered Cg faces show up or robots or something, we go, M. That that's a... That's that's a talking corpse. Right. Alright right. Yeah. No. No. Thank you. No. Thank you. And we're so good at it because they're very best. I mean, for example, you go to like Star Wars and they've been recreating, you, like, Peter Cushing character, grandma talking. Right? Yeah. That was very good. I think... I mean, the think but the take methodology that went into that. It's it's impressive, but something's wrong. And yeah. It's it's it's hard to even say what it is, but pathology that's the uncanny valley you're talking about. You know? Everybody just listening to right now knows the feeling that we're talking about. Right? Oh, hundred percent, which is what I I think that this is a very helpful conversation to have it at the top of this particular so... Yes. So that you're keyed into... What's gonna happen to you as you're listening to what we're about to to show you. Like you said, it's the is the word of the year Everyone's was curious about this. And, you know, I played with Ai generative visual tools a little bit, but they were just kinda like toys, you know, you just wanna experiment a little and see what happens. But I found on Youtube, but I don't remember what called my attention to this, but the work of a finish filmmaker, and an all Ai filmmaker, named Europa. And I really like what I was seeing, because I think he embraces the uncanny Valley party. He's not trying to fool you. Yeah. He's treating it as an expressive medium as an art, and he's embracing all of the weird quirks and all the weirdness that comes with not really fully being able to control this technology right now. And he was very kind to join us from Helsinki and talk with us for a few hours. I wanna make a note here before we jump into the interview proper. Which is, Ro is finished, and, you know, he has, you know, he's not as fluent and fluid with English as I am with Finnish, I don't know a single word. So he was the 1. I want people to be sensitive to the fact that In this interview, Europa is doing all the heavy lifting. He is trying to explain incredibly difficult ideas and concepts, And, and not his first language. And... But he's very articulate. He knows... He he really made me think differently oh, about the subject of Ai generative art, give me a lot to think about. I'm still thinking about it. We recorded this 6 months ago, and I'm still chewing on this. And 1 last thing, again, on the language front, this is my way of saying that some people like to listen to this podcast while, like, knowing the lawn or doing the dishes, you're gonna need to listen list at this 1 And And and also, we're gonna have a Youtube version. You might wanna really consider watch the youtube version to see what we're talking about. A hundred percent because there's gonna be passages where you're, you gonna... If you'd list just listed to this thing you're just gonna hear weird noises for a while, and then a bunch of people talking about what something looks like. And that's not gonna be very helpful. So we should suggest that you watch it. Yeah. And with no further ado. Rope N everyone. 2 years ago 2 half a years ago, I had my omni life crisis so to speak. So I turned in 41, and I thought, well, So I've been alright short stories, writing poems. I've been taking pictures for... 30 years. I've played in balance. I've written Songs. In school, I he made some fields, If I don't, you know, do it now, then I will then grow all that I I will be extremely upset. So 2 and a half years ago Then quit my job. And it just so happens that that's in 20 21. Well, I thought I was pretty sure as, you know, there will be huge new potential in the way people then can create. I started to learn to use Ai and I started to learn then screen writing. So I saw first, examples in of, then August 20 21. Yeah. But it's this kind of exponential growth so. If there's exponential growth, it's slight slow in the first years and then it then starts to explore. So where do you think we're going to be in a couple of years with this technology. I mean, right now, we're gonna get into this later. I wanna talk about things like temporal instability and all these things that make the Ai generated. Stuff so freaky. Like, when do you think it will get something that looks real and do we want to? Is that even the point Well. Those are michelin 2 questions because they are not. They don't perhaps have the same as or if, Ai reaches such a stage that it then star star stars then to train itself real. Then the speed can even more than exponential growth. Then to start to speed it up even more. We are now in September 20 23. So in in September 20 24. I'm pretty sure that, you know, pictures you you create will look in a state that most people probably can't tell. You know, is this a Corona. It has been only 6 months since Made that prediction, and that moment has already come to pass. Corona Look at these generated pictures, even I have gotten to the point where I can't tell. The difference. All of these ai tools can be used for 2 things. You don't either try to or replicate the existing world in some. Or you don't use it there to create something that does not exist today. So it's not a replica. You don't probably create something that, we find interesting, but that nobody has didn't seen before. I'm personally the quite excited about them this side. So it's not just a way to make the same thing or cheaper. Or, you know, or debate a fate version of the same thing, But it's actually a tool which you can use is to create something that nobody has to yet seen time to wake up. Where am I? We had a little festival here. And watch everything on your channel, and the And the closer it gets to real sort of that... Which I know is not you what you're going for, but when you end up with stuff that's generated that has all, you know, correct... When it's all... Works out for correctly for a while. It kind of is not as as interesting. Because everything else is like nothing anyone has ever seen for. Now the signature of generative video is the instability, the temporal and instability. And that right now is the most unique thing about it. I think I what catches everyone's eyeballs eyeballs right now, and it is like Lsd. It's almost the same experience. It's nothing stands still. I had so many thoughts thinking about what this mimics, what this looks like. I can look into it and I can see the Ai digesting. It has a digestive look to it as it's... As it's pulling sources from everything from its library from its learning and spending something back out. It looks like digestion. It looks like an Lsd trip, it's very hard not to watch and be slightly horrified. Because the lack of stability, is upsetting, I think. And it reminds me read this article a couple months ago, somebody did a... An article on famous winds, wind to pattern throughout the globe. And every now and then, sometimes it's a yearly, sometimes just 7 years or whatever some part of the world will have these crazy wins that come through, and those moments are always associated with higher incidence of homicide. And there is something ag agitated about nothing standing still and it gets to us at a really really deep level. I spent an hour watching, yeah, your films last night. On a big screen, big sound system, and it did something to my head. It did something neurological to my visual processing sis system. And then we said, okay. Well, and that's starting to get to. Let's watch something else now. Now everything else I was... I... Everything else was suspect after that all traditionally produced video. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Now. He's gonna do something. It's gonna do something. Expected. My my brain didn't trust my eyes anymore. After after watching it for maybe too long, those are my feelings, and, now would like to hear what y'all think about that. I've been out then staring up these videos for like, many years. So III see it all, man. So I I think It's it's my mind is kind of lighting in a very... I didn't appreciate the state of, like, being able in the questionnaire. Question it. Everything nicely see. I put my videos on the Tiktok, and, the number 1 comment is kind like. It's slight a fever dream or it's It's, dreams. People may say that Rope films feel or look like fever dreams. But that comparison suggests a stream of consciousness or automation that it is not part of his filmmaking process. It is not automated, the technology does not exist yet to think of an idea and have the computer generated from, say, a brain implant. So where do Rope ideas come from this kind of a boring question to ask any artist who knows. But this case, what is interesting is how does he turn those ideas into sight and sound. At the end of the day, you know, you want to tell. L story. So be it a a cartoon or a movie or, photos or a book for with the kind of the Meta. So, I mean, I a screen play. But the interesting thing there is that kind of like Stream a move then traditionally if you would write it, you were probably write it in a way that you would consider that how can it be filled. So I mean, it needs to be realistic in terms of flying, you know, the real world, but also the budget, If I want to pay place a story into the New Year's subway, I can. I don't need to get permissions in that way. He's coming this way. We'll cut the power once he gets near. What was he talking about? Sir? Listen to me carefully. There are no rats in the subway. It is a new form. So is it like film or the theater or you know, it is what's the difference between Tie play a Tv show or a field version of same thing? It's the same, but it's different. I do it in the its own form. If we draw 5 years to the future, it is probably possible then go the persistent forms. Then also quite well. I was about to say, I'm getting the sense now that I've seen your work that at least in terms of entertainment, it's not so much a new tool as it is a whole new instrument, Yep. Yeah. And and 1 unlike, we've ever seen, like, a complete software instrument. What... What I'm curious about is, first of all, I I do wanna I I do wanna get some sense of your your process about... Your inputs, your specific inputs. But, in watching your videos, the difference between, say, the meta morph, which is highly narrative story. Right? And the music videos is so different. There seems to be something in the music videos that I guess, because there's an existing piece of material it's able to lock onto to that. And so there's a there's a cohesion in the flow of the music videos. That isn't really there yet in the in the narratives. Am I am I getting that correct? Is it... Or are you... Is that what it is? And are you inputting the video first or you telling it, basically telling this software go find this video and do something to it. So you're gonna either create any videos. So it then a references on existing video. So say you have a video of something. You don't then hand that video over to the Ai. So you have some sense of control, but you don't still make changes. Then the other way you gotta create is that you don't have the Ai a video, but to hand it different input. So you don't had a picture then to start with. You can add some text prompts. You can add it some kind of, additional directions. You can tell. Here's a picture. Please move the camera to the right slowly and then you the right the prompt light, personal talking. And and then then it then tries to take the picture find a person, then they make them talk, and then they move the camera to the right. But it has no additional on their inputs. So basically, those those those 2 ways are the main ways you go at this moment then create videos. Yeah. So the... Because that I was gonna say that that If you were to take that smashing pumpkins video of Share Brock. And look go back in time and just sort of plop that down in the zeitgeist of 19 94. It at absolutely without a doubt would have won best video of the year. No question. And the same for for the, what was the other 1? The the the offspring video was amazing. Mean there's some sort of anime thing going on there. What what did you... What did you... What's the... What were the inputs for the off offspring video? So in the case of these music videos you can configure not only tips browser but you can actually already train or then fine to then a term. You can actually, you know, fine tune the Ai by enough to work in a specific and resource or style. It's or the flip side of this kind of, that the more day I then create than the artery is than the contra at the same time. The real kind of skill for an Ai artist is absolutely control. This is what I really wanna get into. This is the part that fa makes me the most as someone who... Grew up at wearing the dat and Max Ernst and the surreal. They would frequently intentionally do things to put a little distance between the art and their level of control, introduce some accident Yeah. That was exactly my next question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was there was a, you know, from Us and collage and all these different things of Max ernst would, you know, squeeze. Plates of glass plates with paint together, un stick them and then let that dry and look at it and say, alright. What does that look like? And kinda sharpen it using the, you know, the old kind of hardware, the, brain. It's pattern in recognition to flesh out the idea and turn it into something a little more sc. And you're clearly, I mean, you're you're down in the trenches with us all the time. And dealing with a machine that doesn't... That that does put a bit of distance between your idea and whatever that final output is going to be which is why I think that your, sub heading on your Youtube channel is so fitting, en sla Ai to make some art. How cooperative are these Ai slaves And how do you make and do your bidding? Part of this is a temporary problem software us, You know, the way we humans now talk with Ai. Especially with this product all tools. It's the worst study will be... So it will be much better in 3 months and months at 12 months. So of course, It's like, especially when A film major is all by themselves, you know, And they don't have nobody to talk to, They don't have spontaneous inputs that are like then highly than something else that what they're thinking in themselves. But now, especially with the Ai tools, they it it... They quite often comes back with such suggestions that are completely light and brain dead. But they're like braid in a way. So it it it it really started to push me. So it... So I see see the potential there. So I mean, always, if you had a team of, you know, often the creative people, it made sense to have people who have completely different ideas. In the case of, you know, on Ai, then you don't have to save personal problems. So you get results that are like, you know, sometimes they're fantastic. Thumb down the stair, completely insane, but you don't start to hate, you know the person, and vice. And the person don't start to hate you, So when you see like than crazy Ideas each day, it probably it might that help you. Can you kinda take 1 of your videos? That that we've seen on your channel and sort of run us through the process, give us an example of 1 that you said, okay. Do this. It came back. It was like, what the fuck is at. And then. And then you... And then you've... And the... But then you gave you an idea and you kept running with it. Can I don't write a script in all cases? So if it's a short film, it's then in my head. The best way to make video is to is to actually then the reference pick pictures. So you actually then create huge amount of pictures off then from the screen play. So you try to create each shot. So here, I'm using this stable diffusion. I have my own computers at home. So I then leave the computer is their on then for the night, then I come back in the guide of the and and I have a thousand feature. My gosh. 90 percent of the pictures are bad. 5 percent are usable. And then 5 percent or the 1 percent has something that I didn't didn't expect. Wow, okay. I mean, the perfect example here is is is is the crow. So then... When I started story, Item I then didn't know how it would end yet. So I I knew what that what the crow will do in in the story. But I didn't yet understand that that the crow will actually then replace the person. But then I saw these pictures for a while. I saw the saw the guy nest in the house, And then have after I saw it for a few days, it's then then my then my brain which is sound slow. It then started to realize. Yes. Of course. That's the way I should then start to end the kind of the story. So the whole process was like, You do dupont, you see these pictures, and then you find the best ones of the shots, and I go to step 3, So most people nowadays, at this moment use this service called out. And they have this, feature called then Gen 2... So basically, the way... The gen 2 works is... You can feed it a pitcher and a prompt. So here you can see from the terminals thumbnails that they they all start from a pitcher. Then tries then to create a shot from the picture and the front. But, you know, this 1 also have... Has to same issue as with the picture. So sometimes that is I didn't see the result, and I didn't start to think about this story. I have this. I think there's like 1400 of these, you know, that I made and in Yeah. And then in the final 1, they flight 800 in our shots How much of the of your time goes into just writing the prompts before did you get the to get the steel images? I didn't... Oh, Run I'm through the screen play I don't pretty much hate lighten in. I'm every single line, and, you know, that's a prompt. In terms of this over process is like 5 percent of time. So my approach is kind of a kind of them improved for us approach. So I'm I would called ben for for for a kind of the lack of control, but, you know, I just made a... 8000 pictures. And then then find the ones that I like. Well, specifically, do you go in edit individual images, let's say, in a different program, photoshop just kinda help steer it? Or do you pretty much take those images straight out of stable diffusion and say, I can make this work. I don't... I I have no intention to to keep a Ai art like, pure in a way. I don't. I don't think no. That's not meaningful to me. All the kind of tricks you know, or did fe key aims amazon. So then I do it this shots then I find the best ones. The interesting part here is offers that now we... When you go to the video world, it's not just video, but it. Voice music. If you do a short feel naturally, has spend more time on the rest than the actual picture and they got a lot the video parts. So picture and video at a like 1 third of the time I spent, and and actually, you know, 2 thirds both to sound speech music sound effects. If if I may, if I may, I just wanna jump in and interrupt and just before... Because I don't get a chance to do it later and compliment you. I'm a as a film editor, myself, your sound design is... Beautiful. Yeah. It's so good. And it's... And it goes... It does so much work to contextualize and make all of those wild images stick together, talk to each other that makes it cohesive. I think your sound work is... Everyone talks about the Ai, but I've I've noticed your sound work, buddy is brilliant. Now are you are are you adding? Are you at or do... Are you doing the sound work? Is that completely built by you or any of that Ai? Yeah... Yeah. I mean, I, I do spend a lot of time on the silent parts. 1 of my obvious is that I... I am a musician in a way. I've played some bands. I'd played guitar some, some best. It's fun and it's important. So I I didn't know, I've tried to use some of these Ai tools. So Ai tools tools for for music are not get there for me. I do use sound... I do use a, I to create large sound effects. So we just that has the potential then they to create something fantastic. So. If the pictures are, you know, half this certain vibe. Then of course, if you use Ai tools them to create sound, then to accent that same vibe. Robot made me realize. How powerful Ai is going to be for sound editing. Because an Ai program can just look at a scene and computationally fig hear out what kind of sounds you would expect to hear in that scene and from what distance and it would figure out all of the acoustic characteristics that. This is going to have a very, very disruptive effect on the whole sound editing sound post production process We're not quite there yet, but it's coming. He's not well. He works too hard. I'm glad you come, sir. Now he will surely open the door Mister Sam, you are neglecting your business duties. I thought you were a dependable man. I will open the door or At the time of this recording back in September of 2023. The tools to make Ai generated people move their mouths in sync. With recorded audio dialogue, making it was brand new. And Rope films, Were among of the first a boy to use it about nothing but as well... I'm hugely excited about these because they have this potential that that create something that is quite quite too strange. Why this. Think do catch at black. I'm ready to go. Here I'm willing to work? Are you going to the office? Sir? He'll need? I mother, mother, a here. So so it's a kind of mixture of, you know, use bowl. Parts. So I didn't find an individual word or phrase, but then it has, you know, plenty of surprises and it has plenty of, you know, a weird waste than to stay things or like, you know, it stars then than whisper or... Away boy away, get away from her, get away from her. Go away, get away from her. So let's say, at this moment, this blog. So here it. You have a here, I have a bit video, so I have salad, but but there's no... But there's no sync And then after the result, you can feed it a sound file and a cards video file end result in the best case. It then gives you a lip which is trying to like almost, you know, rice. Animal don't. Animals eat bug. Lip of, painful because when people are talking, they're not just them mood in their, you know, mouth. It's the whole phase. There will somebody will soon invent an Ai that will take that end result or that the face will be more intent with D singh? Is the Ai just giving you the shots or is it also giving you an initial edit? Were you building the whole edit? I the kind of did myself. So adi I at this moment. I haven't found an that do a meaningful video ad d. But at at this moment, I think that's the crossover part that your that you need to build yourself, and it's the fund builders. So so so that you have, you know, these all the guy the building blocks, but then the actual crafting in, your, like, you know, they feel it's started exactly the same layer as, you would do it, you know, with then with the material, you wouldn't then shoot it yourself, in a traditional film, most people, you know, if you don't have infant budgets, you do do right screen play, you apply the shirt, you do the shoes, you get the results. And then and, you know, then, you know, basically, then that's it. Now with this, this letter, I have potential there to do it then, infinite ratios, you know, infinite, you know, I'm I'm not tied to the end results. I'm completely free then to create trough. I'm sure this must happen when you're, in the edit. There's a little piece of connective tissue, some logic that's missing. And you know you can fill that hole so you go back and And that's and that's where I to say as a filmmaker Was really impressed because I've seen a lot of, you know, generative art, and it's very pretty. It's very interesting. It could be very beautiful. But telling a story can be hard because of the nature of how Ai generates images. So making that stuff hang together in a thread, is I think something... You you seem to have AAA really unique talent for the images still managed to somehow, talk hand off, meaning 1 shot to the next. It progresses, in a in a meaningful way, and that's... I I can tell that's a lot of iterations and a lot of work. But also, at a certain point, you have to let it go. You could do that forever. Yep. Yeah. Mean, I'm very happy with, you know, I think the 1 of the core part of this Ai test is that, you know, you cannot obtain perfection. I think it's a bit in our music you then replace chords. So you don't... Are you derive a song with has, the, of the basic chords, and you it works fine. I, but but you don't actually your are replaced almost, you know, every chord with, like, a weird version of the cord data. And you know, air shots are these weird were versions. But if they full fulfill their role in the story. So if it if it works in your mind. So if the story goes from gear to year or it start. It the max you feel or something. It makes no difference if the shot itself is actually completely kind of like, you know, we or like, they're run or Florida or the you want that I'm working on or right now, but I'm working on a 5 minute video about how how people invented that blue Pepsi. And, you know, And then this this video it will be probably out in a few days. Think did will probably be my be my best 1 in that way that I go far away from, like, no reality, man, I actually go into worlds. Have a taste. Tell me what you think. It tastes like mouth wash. You are a crazy. It's non. Mouth wash. It berries. I'm sorry. I really don't know how it can help you. What ties you. Why? You will find the answer inside. Relax. That's your mind drift. It's simply hugely excited because you can go in the worlds that are hard to go into in traditional world. If you think about the as a camera. You can't then get a camera that is able to do what these Ai cameras are enabled then to do it right now. And I think that's a personal. Way of how do you think about it? But if you think about it in terms of the this model that you actually have a tool that is far than superior to the world's best camera in some ways. I think if you go into that, then you can start to see all kinds of interesting potential. Sir, the camera... The camera you sold me has taken Lsd. Yeah. And I think you know, that's of course part of fortunately, it's part of new medium. So if you put... I mean, they kind of the resolution is is the lower. And so but if you put it on the instead instagram having put it on Twitter, you don't need these 4K6K cameras that, you know, show show them all the details. And I think overall stories I mean, even if if you think about movies like, blair at which projects or than whatever. If you have a good story. People who will then start to for for forgive. There's all kinds of interesting deals with these A fields for instance that for in in the comparisons in each shop that look different or they have light, then then they have a, of different set of clothes and you are team at first that, you know, that's slightly distracted. But I really actually find that people don't call. They don't comp complain that in this shot, they had a blow that in the next shot, they have a white shirt. It's not that... It's not something you see in the North, funeral know to nobody would have the time to actually change their clothes for a shot. But the people are actually surprisingly or given that, you know, As slur as the holes are the same. What Europa is talking about here is called coding. If you give the audience the code or the grammar your film in the first few minutes, they will most likely be able to adjust and accept almost anything that comes afterward as long as it sticks to that set of rules. Defined by the code. It's just another example of how adaptive and plastic our brains are. And back to that issue of temporal instability. It lends itself to a dream like quality where men is never solid. Ideas are not fixed. But the technical issue of temporal stability will be solved, but it is this period of development that most. It's not bad generative of art, it's simply the current state of the art and video generated during these years will be marked by that sense of cutting edge possibility. And then maybe 1 day, we'll become nostalgic. In the same way that we are now nostalgic for that first 3 d video for Dire straits money for nothing. It looks silly now, but it marks a time in that technology technology's development. If you think about a dream sequence in the field on me, that's like, they're super hard to do actually. You know, people do like a blur and they kind of, like, put something glow there and they pretend, you know, that slide of dream sequence. And and and they always suck how do our minds still work in dreams overall. Mean, it's hard to fold some something and not anything is this eastern instant. This temporal stability is trying at at this moment in 20 23. To capture this moment in time that is trying apply buried then fleeting. In 5 years, you know, the teams will be worked out. So I kind of like, you know, it it it will start to look look more than normal. But I think we are now in a in in a super specific moment of time where it's now at the threshold that is kind of like, in... It's extreme main interesting interesting in place. Like first music videos with 3 d, so pioneer straight, you know, music video, just like. Bad really. But at the same time, it's not bad. It's actually fantastic and it and it's really didn't capture something specific. You actually create something with these tools that are flawed. They tried to create art with it in not in a kind of are a sarcastic vendor, but actually try to create something with. I have this assumption that if I take 5 years to the if we go 5 years to the future, and then we look back that the art being created in 20 23, will be actually quite interested hopefully. Because it will be kind of like the first or glimpse sets of kind of light, from, like this humbly noise to actually something that is the meaningful and and I suspect and hope that this short moment in time that we are in right now you don't need to wait. So, I mean, you can tell, you know, exciting stories today. Thank you for watching part 1 of our interview with a rope on. Next time, we're gonna get more into the ethical and financial matters associated with Ai. Thanks for watching. The well is written produced and edited by Ans Mount and B, theme music written and performed by Jonathan Me, with additional music by Brandon agents. Special thanks to Rope Rid stone for chatting with us from Finland and for donating the work that appears in this episode until next time. Have a good time.