One thing that the new year means for most of us is an opportunity to renew and relaunch. It's the time to make plans real, make smart decisions, and reach for things that may seem unattainable. If you've been wanting to try something new in your cultivation recipe, now might be a great time to give it a try. For those of you following along on the ShapingFire Instagram account, you know that I'm experimenting with my first sea of green style grow in a 4 by 4 tent in the ShapingFire offices. Now I got in fired watching Caleb from CSI Humboldt run Sea of Green for many years and finally found the time myself. So far so great. Stop by the Shaping Fire Instagram to check it out for yourself. While talking about Instagram though, I wanna make sure that you know how sketchy it has gotten for cannabis businesses on Instagram. If you haven't already noticed, Instagram is intentionally pushing cannabis businesses off the platform to support their new teen safety program. Up until now, cannabis accounts were primarily flagged by folks in the community reporting each other. Now though, Insta is using keywords and image recognition to automatically flag cannabis plants, and words like cannabis and cultivation and clone, causing creators to be shadow banned or deleted automatically often with no way to appeal. Instagram very truly does not want us there. And yet Instagram is where we all connect with each other as a cannabis community. It doesn't seem right. And it is going to knock many cannabis businesses and podcasts out of existence. There is talk of moving to Twitter or Blue Sky or threads or Nostr, but none of these have the participation of a significant percentage of our cannabis community. Nothing beats Instagram in that regard. We're all here. When we all leave Instagram, the community will be splintered as we go different places. So if you are interested in continuing to follow your favorite cannabis content creators or businesses, be sure to connect with them in a secondary way that is more direct. Something like signing up for their newsletter. In fact, I encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter too. The Shaping Fire IG could be gone any day. We send you new podcast episodes as they come out delivered right to your inbox along with commentary on a couple of the most important news items from the week and videos too. Don't rely on social media to let you know when a new episode is published. Sign up for the updates to make sure you don't miss an episode. And since we moved the newsletter off our own servers to generic servers, our successful delivery rate has spiked and participation with the newsletter is at an all time high. 44% of subscribers not only read it, but click on the links too. Also, we're giving away very cool prizes to folks who are signed up to receive the newsletter. This month's sponsor is Terp Wizards Plant Magic Homestead, and 5 lucky winners will receive the 3 crosses of his grape cream cake seed line. And be sure to check out their Instagram accounts at plant_magic_homestead_ and of course, terp_wizard to see what else they are up to. So go to the shapingfire.com and sign up for the newsletter and be entered into this month's and all future newsletter prize drawings. Today's episode begins year 9 of Shaping Fire podcast. We've been doing this for you since 2016. Thanks to the folks that sent the Christmas tips. That was appreciated. If you like what we do and want to put something in the tip jar, you can always, Venmo us at shango lows. You are listening to Shaping Fire, and I am your host, Shango lows. Happy New Year. Welcome to episode 119. Today, Eric Branstad returns to Shaping Fire to talk about small greenhouses for home cultivation. Eric has been a greenhouse and farming adviser for over 30 years now. He started out in the Northern Carol, California heritage market, helping cultivators optimize their greenhouses, learn light deprivation techniques, and avoid many of the common errors that impact cannabis crops. His reach widened with the adoption of Proposition 215 Medical in California, which started Eric working across the state both selling commercial sized greenhouses as well as offering top tier consulting. Since normalization began creeping across the country, Eric has become one of the most respected names in cannabis and a thought leader in cannabis greenhouses. He helps multi state operators and smaller family businesses across the country. And he works with indoor cultivators too. Eric has been on Shaping Fire as a guest before. On Shaping Fire episode 41, Eric was here to talk about cannabis greenhouse rescues when the worst scenario happens and you gotta save your crop, a specialty of Eric's. And again, gosh, all the way back 100 episodes and 8 years ago to Shaping Fire number 13 titled Maximizing Yield with Light Deprivation Techniques. Both great episodes. Today we'll be discussing greenhouses for home cultivation. While our insights today are applicable to most greenhouses that are 20 by 20 and smaller, we are especially focused on the green or white greenhouse kits that are sold on Amazon and elsewhere that are used by folks all over the world and are an easy greenhouse solution. If you've never seen one of these green horticulture plastic greenhouses or if you want one specifically that I use, there's a direct link on the shapingfire.com page for this episode. Easy peasy. So during the first set, we will discuss the advantages of using a greenhouse no matter where you are in the country, recommended sizes for your needs, placement on the property, anchoring, venting, flooring and bracing of your greenhouse. During the 2nd set, we will look at dealing with heat and cold issues of greenhouses and how to keep your growing parameters dialed in, as well as pests from insects and rodents up to deer. And we finished the episode looking to upgrade your small home greenhouse with light depth, adding lights, heating coils for the soil, and how to properly store the plastic over winter. All in all, a jam packed episode of useful ideas for the home cultivator. Hey, Eric. Welcome back to Shaping Fire. Hey, Shango. Thanks for having me. So glad to have you back. So, let's get right into it. You know, the biggest question probably at the top is is why bother with greenhouse Because we can talk a lot about the details of greenhouses. But for many people, they're like, you know, I don't really want the money and the expense. I'm just fine growing outdoors. It worked for me, and it worked for my pappy. And, like, this is the way, like, it goes. And, you know, when I used my first greenhouse, I was really caught off guard by how much better my plants thrived. So, you make this pitch to people all the time about why they should upgrade to a greenhouse. So so why don't you start us off with that? Sure. I mean, you know, most people when they grow cannabis, you know, have trouble especially in the fall, you know, towards harvest season or harvest time, let's say. You know, the weather can start to turn bad. It starts to get colder. It starts to, you know, possibly even rain. And then, you know, throughout the growing cycle, depending on where you are, there can be a reason for greenhouses. I mean, people in New York deal with rain throughout the summer. You know, we're pretty lucky here in California through a lot of the cannabis growing where outdoor has been, pretty pretty easy for the most part except for, you know, some of the years we've had some some late early rains that, you know, cause problems. But generally speaking, the greenhouses provide a benefit of protecting the plants. It's a great way to hide your plants if you don't want the neighbors to see anything. It also provides a great structure to be able to pull a light depth cover over if you wanna do the light depth technique as well. So there's a bunch of reasons to use a greenhouse for cannabis, but it can be a little bit of a double edged sword using a greenhouse in the summertime. But as you noticed, out on the islands where you are in Washington, it became a great benefit rather than just going straight outdoors. So, I think that, you know, with cannabis being the Michael Jordan or the super plant that it is compared to all other plants, it just seems to do really well in greenhouses. I think that's really well put. It it really just gives us options. You know? It it it gives you an opportunity to, you know, boost your warmth if that's what you need, to cut down on your wind if that's what you need, and to make it more discreet if that's what you need. It just it just makes options. And and and, really, these these kinds of greenhouses that we're focusing on today, you know, you you you started in, you know, NorCal doing all the all the gorilla and kinda like OG hidden stuff and then grew into medical. And then now you're consulting at least all over the country, if not all over the world, on these big, you know, multimillion dollar sh ticks. But but what we're talking about today are these these small $200 greenhouses, which if you get them on sale, like, this time of year now, like, December for the following year, you can get things that'll be, like, $350 in May for, like, $200. And, that that buys you a lot of options comes the summer. For sure. I mean, my business and previously when I was in, you know, selling greenhouses, I definitely was shooting for the big stuff, but we did spend a lot of time. And even when I started out with the greenhouse company, in 2006 and 7, we we were carrying smaller greenhouses. I mean, granted they were automated and expensive and way more expensive than any would wanna spend even now, but we were really hyper focused on, you know, the home grower and the medical grower. And so we had a 10 by 10 and a 20 by 20. Later on, we created a hoop house that was 16 by 12. It was so it was still kinda big, but at the same time, you know, our our our thoughts were always with the home grower, outside of, you know, targeting the the commercial growers, which was really, you know, what the business had to do. But, you know, the home grower was really where where it all starts. And and, you know, with the medical side of things, we had a lot of home growers early in the days. And then with the new legalization in various states, you know, home growing is still allowed in most cases. And so it never really went away, but, you know, I think that it it's a great opportunity for people to give it a try with, you know, especially these more affordable options that are out there now. Yeah. Absolutely. So so let's let's talk about, the footprint. So there are, you know, you can buy these green greenhouses, lots of places. A lot of people buy them on Amazon, but you can also buy them at, you know, different types of agricultural stores if you're not not into Amazon. But, I mean, I have to mention Amazon because so many people write to me saying I just picked one up on Amazon and. Right? So I'm I'm guessing that if 90% of the people who are writing to me asking questions about are buying them on Amazon, that that is is kind of the default for most people, for better or for worse. I have bought maybe 5 or 6 different brands on the website, and and while, none of them are particularly sponsoring Shapingfire right now, I just wanna clue folks in that I have liked the Quictent brand, q u I c t e n t, for their new upgraded stuff. But but really, I I have not gotten a bad brand yet. So so, you you know, take a look and and and see which one's on sale and which one looks good to you. But specifically, let's talk about, footprints, Eric. The the the ones that seem to be predominant are, you know, 15 by 7, 10 by 10, 20 by 10, and there's a lot of 25 by tens all of a sudden. I'm not sure why there's so many of the different, sellers are using the same footprint, but it it wouldn't surprise me if they were all buying their their framework from the same company in China, and then they're all just, you know, rebranding what they put on this skeleton. What are your thoughts in trying to, you know, figure out the size that you want? It it wouldn't surprise me if most people just go for, I'm going to get the biggest, that I have got room for in on my property. Right? But but some people are like myself, I needed to make get one that I knew would be 2 rows wide at least because I I wanted to be able to walk down the middle and and have plants on either side. When you were selling these, greenhouses, not the cheap ones I'm talking about, what you were selling was much nicer, but it had a similar footprint. What kind of guidance did you give people when they were trying to determine what size they wanted? You know, that's a great question because everybody is a little different in what they expect or what they want. And so with the greenhouses that I was dealing with, you know, sometimes it came down to price. People had a budget and this is all I could really spend. So we're gonna okay. We're gonna get what we can get out of this budget, basically. Other times, people just felt like, hey, this is and people have, a thought in their minds, I guess, of what is safe to them and what is not maybe, or what is reasonable, let's say, and what is maybe out of reason to an extent. And so, you know, a lot of people would call with, hey. This is the size that seems reasonable to me. And so a lot of times with the you know, they're not terribly bigger hoops than the ones you're talking about, but they are, bigger in width and height. And so the most common sized greenhouse that we sold back then, especially in the early days, was a 16 by 48 or a 20 by 48. And I'm not a 100% sure why, but the majority of customers that would call would always stick with this 48 foot long greenhouse. And, you know, that wasn't because that's the size of their backyard. That just seemed to be the reasonable size in everybody's minds at the time. And so when you look at the greenhouses that you're talking about in the backyard setting or the homegrower setting, it really comes down to that. Like, what fits in somebody's backyard maybe without being too much of an eyesore? Maybe it fits in the backyard and it still leaves room for the animals and the kids to play. Maybe it's something that isn't gonna look and the kids to play. You know, maybe it's something that isn't gonna look too big to the neighbors and cause them to call and complain or something like that. So, I mean, there's a a plenty of reasons of, you know, why people pick these different sized greenhouses. And I think the one that you picked or the company that you're, you know, talking about has really, you know, found, the sweet spot, let's say, because a lot of the hobby greenhouses that have been on the market and currently on the market, you know, are typically square or rectangle. They're usually the clear polycarbonate that, is, you know, similar to glass in its transparency. And a lot of them are kind of difficult to put together. Some of them are fairly flimsy in some regards, and so it's really hard to find the right hobby greenhouse. And that's why you haven't seen a lot of the hobbies be very popular, until this one came along. And know, kinda like you're saying, there's been a a lot of people liking and buying this greenhouse off Amazon or similar to it, and that's just because it seems to fit that reasonable aspect of shipping, putting together longevity, and then, you know, the sizes they have seem to be reasonable with where people wanna stick those in the backyard or at the home grow. Yeah. All all true. And 4 year 5 years ago now, there was a big upgrade in the industry. They used to be all that, like, really cheap, kind of, like, white, really bendy, aluminum y kind of metal that, like, you get one bad storm, and they would mess up. And And then all of a sudden at once, all of the companies tended to, said upgraded, and they all moved to galvanized steel. And, that seems to be when they took off because suddenly they were they were one step closer to kind of like the adult greenhouses that you're that you're more familiar with. Right? Like, suddenly, they're like, oh, if you get a little bit if you get a little bit of weather, you're gonna be okay. And, and so people started going with them. Well, I I think that's really important to note because a lot of the greenhouses and even the greenhouses that I've put together over the years that are, you know, a little bit more, you know, a little bit more commercial grade, I guess you could say. I don't know. But it doesn't take much for a wind to pick up a greenhouse and move it, whether it's the hobby ones or even the bigger, more commercial ones. And so weather and and, you know, wind and things can really put a hammering on a greenhouse. And so I think with the amount of little, you know, greenhouses like yours that took sail in a windstorm and blew off the property or maybe got damaged from some severe rains, you know, was enough, you know, complaints or notes to the company for them to go, oh, you know, here's what we need to do, and then they made that change. But I think collectively, you know, they had to have enough people complain or have problems with them for them to see that change needed. But it doesn't take much. I mean, honestly, you know, I think sometimes you can see the writing on the wall, and people just wanna try out the flimsy stuff first and see how far it gets them. Let's talk about hyghsome because, most of these these, consumer backyard greenhouses top out at 6.6 feet. And, of course, this does not set one up for monster California's outdoor sized plants. And so we have to, you know, be aware of that and probably, you know, topping your plants at least once and getting, you know, getting good at that. But, it's frustrating because with these these hobby greenhouses, they have the, they have the what's the word? Like, the curved roof. Right? Mhmm. And so you really only get the 6 point 6 apex at the middle of the roof. And so if you put your walking space along the middle, you've got the head space, but then your plants are gonna be topping out at, like, 6 or 5 and a half feet. And so so there's an argument you made to, like, put the plants in the middle and walk yourself around the side, but then when you're in the middle, it makes it when they're in the middle, it makes it harder to tend to every side of the plant because you've got them doubled up in the middle. What kind of, What kind of, you know, advice or thoughts might you have about, you know, an abbreviated height greenhouse that cuts off at 66 versus to, you know, somebody who's got a commercial greenhouse, and they can go as as tall as they want? Somebody who's got a commercial greenhouse, and they can go as as tall as they want? Well, I mean, I think that we need to look at it as, you know, there could be worse problems in the world than 2 big of plants and not being able to get around sometimes. And so I would say that maybe that could be a good thing even though it can be tedious and a little bit annoying or whatever. Like, I mean, but to your point, you know, I always advocate of trying to put plants in the middle or towards the center if we can. When you look at wintertime growing, and I know we're focused more on the summertime, but there is the season extension and things like that. When you start to have your plants closer to the walls of the greenhouse, they are closer to the cold, basically. And so being away from the walls gives you a chance to keep things warmer for free, basically. But, at the end of the day, I think like what you're talking about, topping and training is really important. Unfortunately, a lot of states and if I talk about California in particular, the home growers are only allowed to grow 6 plants legally. And so, of course, you want those 6 plants to be as big as possible. But, you know, if you really dig dig in or look back, and maybe there's nothing to look back at literature wise or podcast wise. But when I look back or think back, I start to think about some of the growers in between, you know, really before the 2 15 days and into the 2 15 days. There were some growers up in the Humboldt County. A friend of mine, Joey Berger, the Humboldt local, one of the unique things what they used to do is they used to start their plants outside, you know, and this could be done in a greenhouse too, but they would actually lay chicken wire on the ground over these plants. I mean, they could grow a 6 pound plant and it would never be taller than 3 feet just because of the way that they trellised it down with this chicken wire and did this crazy ground technique. And so there's only a few people I've heard over the years that are recognized that method or have seen it or heard about it or anything like that. But it's amazing what you can do with some of these plants. I mean, some people have seen how there's growers and, you know, artists that'll do bonsai to these plants and these crazy root systems that come out of these nice, features that they create with the pots and and the bedding. But, you know, the cannabis plant can do incredible things. And so it's surprising of how much trellising and bending and keeping a plant spread out low to the ground, that's possible. So I would say that, you know, on the on the easy side, yeah, topping them, but secondly, you know, how far can you spread your plants and how much can you bend them and bring them around. And it does take a lot of I wouldn't say a lot of, but it takes some extra work and and tending to to do some of this stuff. But it isn't out of the question to be able to train your plants to grow low and still stack on, good weight. I know from when you've been on Shaping Fire before, and we've talked about large scale greenhouses, that you put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into studying the placement of big greenhouses on the property and studying microclimates and then, you know, lovingly encouraging the owners to put the greenhouse to smart place instead of necessarily the convenient place. And, you know, when it comes to backyard greenhouses, I would say the same is true, and yet you have even more pressure. Like, oh, but that's where the garage goes, or, oh, that's where the dog run is, or, oh, that's where the that's where every summer we put up the pool or, you know, whatever. There are lots of demands on, you know, somebody's backyard. Now assuming that they have options instead of just it's the only place in the yard for it, can you give us some, like, you know, thumbnail suggestions for where we might want to place the greenhouse on the property? Sure. I mean, you know, back in the day, one of the things that we'd look to is that, you know, whenever people call for and this technology is changing over time. I think there's apps and more things now on our phones to sort this stuff out than ever. But, you know, originally, when a solar person would come out to give you an estimate for solar on your house, they would have this device, handheld device, that would basically tell them where the sun was and the shadows are for the 12 hours of the day. And so they would come out with this handheld device, stand in a few spots, and look and see where the trajectory of the sun and the shade is gonna be. And they would say, ah, this is the sunniest spot on your property. This is where you want your solar panels. So we kinda started adopting that same idea with, you know, where do I put my greenhouse? We wanna put it in the sunniest spot possible. And so we would use, you know, some of the same techniques. Now, you know, like I said with the apps and and, other things that we might use as far as instruments or tools, we can still do the same thing and maybe do it a little bit more affordable or a little easier. But I would say that one of the things that I like to look to is that to make sure that the fall sun or the the late summer sun, is really intense or, really good. So what I mean by that is that, I lived in, 5 acres of pasture land for 20 years, and so sun really wasn't that big of a problem. But recently, I moved 20 minutes up the road and I'm in the forest and it's literally barely get it gets any sun here. And so it's not the great greatest place for growing cannabis. But I did find a really sunny spot, and I thought I'd give it a whirl this year and put out just 3 plants. I didn't even use a greenhouse because I just wanted to test out this new spot after we cleared some trees. And so while the spot was really sunny throughout the summer and the plants grew fairly tall, as we started getting into the fall, the sun started changing. And basically, I got a lot of shade when I needed a lot of sun for the ripening and the flower production. And so that's where it suffered the most. And I would say that, you know, a lot of plants will veg and grow pretty well even in a little bit of shade or some shade in the afternoon, mixed shade, let's say. But when you start to have the seasons change and that sun becomes diminished during the flowering time, that's where you're gonna be the most bummed. And so I wouldn't I would what I would recommend is trying to make sure that that sunny spot you pick is sunny all the way through the finish. And so if you happen to be in the forest and you say, oh, this is a sunny spot, that might be true, but is it gonna stay sunny the entire time? And if it's not, I would find a place or cut a tree or do something to make sure that you get that late, summer sun for the flower development and the ripening. That is so true, especially if you live a place that isn't as gifted with, cultivation weather as California. Right? Like Mhmm. Up here in Washington, my, my son disappears, there in September. And so, my first couple years here, I was positioned where the sun was in July because I was all excited to bring the plants outdoors. But by, by, you know, 3rd week of September, it it was cutting across the sky differently. And we already have such a hard time finishing plants where I live that you really need to put that tent where where you're gonna get the most bang for your buck in September and, you know, other places, October too, but we can't we can't grow in October here where I live at all. So Right. Yeah. So, alright. So, let's talk about now that we have figured out where they're gonna be in our property, let's talk about anchoring them down. I think that a lot of people are just all like, well, it's a big greenhouse. It's not gonna fly away. Yes. Yes. It's gonna fly away if you don't tie it down. I I I I don't know what professionals use, but all I've done is I I I've picked up a really nice, tent. What do you call those? Tent stakes? Mhmm. And, I wrap a, industrial size zip, zip tie around the bottom metal bar and and then I create a loop with it and then I put the, I put the stake through it and I do, you know, on my 20 foot by tens, I will I'll put, like, you know, 6 of those on each side holding it really down and you know occasionally during the summer I might I might lose a zip tie but not not all the time what do what what do adults use like correct way to do it. But, sometimes things resonate with 1 person better than or one idea resonates with somebody better than the other idea. And so I think the bigger, fancy, stronger tent stakes like you're talking about are a great option. The other thing that I've used is concrete stakes. Concrete stakes are basically heavy metal bars with a pointy end on it, and they also have holes drilled into it. And so for me, it was a lot of the greenhouses that we did. Some of them we did, as you know, as dim as booths for trade shows and lounges. And, you know, there was other people that wanted to do a similar greenhouse, but they knew they were gonna move it. So they didn't wanna auger the holes and cement them in like you're supposed to, like the plan say. And so when some of the greenhouses maybe have a baseboard at the bottom, it could be a small 2 by 4 or something like that around the base perimeter of the greenhouse, even if there's not one. But the tent the concrete stakes work really well because you can get them in a 8 inch, 12 inch, 24 inch, 36 inch concrete stakes. So you can really drive them down pretty good. And if you have it right up next to the greenhouse, you can use those holes that are pre drilled into that concrete stake close to the top once it's all the way tapped in and run some wire through it, run a zip tie through it, or even take a screw and screw it right into the baseboard and it stays pretty well attached. And so concrete stakes have been popular, rebar cut up into various lengths and section has been popular, kinda doing the similar thing. There's other people that have taken rebar and bent it in half so it makes kinda a horseshoe or a a u shape. So you're basically driving it into the ground, maybe straddling something of the greenhouse, maybe a bottom, sideboard or purlin or something that maybe you can attach to and and do that with. Another thing that people have done is similar to what you maybe see when people put up those party tents or circus type tents for get togethers and things is where they actually throw the strap over you know, a ratchet strap over the entire greenhouse and attach it to something that's fixed into the ground. And in some cases, there's been places where we've put things up that we're not allowed to drive stakes into the ground. So we fill up, a bucket with, cement. So you'll take a 5 gallon bucket, dump a cement bag into it, and fill it with water, and you basically have this hardened cement bucket, for a lack of better words. And some people will even put a fancy hook maybe inside that concrete so then it dries. You actually have something to hook to that concrete inside the bucket. And so people will put the buckets around the perimeter of the greenhouse, throw these straps over the greenhouse, and then attach them to these buckets. And so it's not to be ratcheted down so tight that it's actually pulling your greenhouse down, but it avoids it from being able to take off or lift off. Listening to you, kinda name off all these different solutions, I just felt so proud of of stoner ingenuity. You know? Like like, you you take these plus all the ones that we're not even gonna mention. Like, people are always figuring stuff out in new and novel ways in our scene. Oh, for sure. I think, you know, you could take whatever we just explained and and hybridize it or do it a little bit differently with the same parts, and then you and I learn something. Totally. It doesn't surprise me that we've already mentioned Joey Burger as an innovative cannabis person because he's always posting about, oh, I'm trying this new thing, you know, and I and I really appreciate people who are, you know, thought leaders like that. Right? Yeah. Necessity is the mother of invention, and when you're, you know, when you've smoked a couple, it really can go you can really go out there with it. Yeah. Alright. So let let's talk about, the skin when the plastic is is put on. The the only and and biggest issue that I have run into with, a season of plastic is when there is rain, it is often, it it often creates, like, divots in the plastic where, water will collect. Now people who have got more professional greenhouses will immediately say, oh, it's not it's, you know, it's it's not pulled tight enough. You have to, you know, you have to have, like, channel locks on either side of the greenhouse to to really, you know, lock that in. But these these greenhouses are are much too small for that. I forget what those things are called. That little the little wiggle wire. What's that sound? Yep. That's what it's called. Wiggle wire. Oh, is it called wiggle wire? Alright. Great. So it's like these these greenhouses are just too small for that. And, like, you know, you could, but you should probably double the price of the greenhouse by adding wiggle wire minimum. So so so really what we're talking about is ways to support the roof differently. And this year was the 1st year that I tried just simply to run rope back and forth between the ribs that would create, additional support in between the ribs. And it worked out it worked out okay. I definitely took it all apart, and I'm gonna try it again next year with with a a, a a thinner rope wrapped more times. But is is there anything at the professional level that you recommend to people to to help fill in those gaps between the ribs so that the water doesn't create, like, little buckets? Yeah. I mean, that happens even on big greenhouses or or, you know, traditional greenhouses or commercial gray, whatever. But, I mean, it it does come down to sometimes the way these things are manufactured and how the plastic goes on. And, you know, 9 times out of 10, not everything's a 100% ideal, but it's close enough. And, you know, I do suggest to make sure that when people do put their plastics on, they try to do it on a sunny day. You know, it's good to pull out the plastic and maybe lay it on top of the greenhouse or on the ground right next to the greenhouse and let it get hot. And that way, it a lot of times, as as most people know, when things are warm, they're a little bit more pliable or malleable. And and when things are cold, they're a little bit more stiff and harder to deal with. And and most, if not all, greenhouse plastics are the same way. And so it's good to lay it out, let it get warm, and really try to stretch it on as tight as possible so that when it does cool down, that contraction, you know, is what creates that tighter, fit. So to to basically hold things on a little bit better, it it's tricky. I've seen people use, you know, the the really sticky, fancy Velcro from Home Depot to try to rig things up. Using lath or PVC in conjunction with the ropes like you talked about to create purlins and things that go between each rib to try to create the rigid make the structure more rigid. So it doesn't always help the plastic, but sometimes when you're messing around with things like you're talking about, you go in and you do something and maybe it works pretty good. And a lot of times, we have this moment going, well, if I was to do this again, I'd do it this way. And it sounds like that's kinda where you are with your, you know, possibility of doing this. That's exactly where I, the the the, like, the first year I did this, I tried packing tape, and that was great, but it broke over the course of the year just from the weather. And then and then this year was rope, but but I need I need to come up with a different pattern so that it gets more coverage. Yeah. No. And and, you know, in some cases, you know, if you thumb through some of the greenhouse catalogs, you know, I mean, there's the catalogs that get sent to you in the mail. There's the online ones, you know, like Greenhouse Megastore, for instance. There's some others out there on the East Coast, like Griffin Greenhouse. And I would say that, you know, sometimes when you're going through these catalogs and these online things, you run into new things that, could be applicable to a home grow greenhouse. And so they do sell a lot of do it yourself parts for creating backyard and maybe home grow or do it yourself greenhouses. But at the same time, there are certain parts and things that we run into that could be useful in whatever greenhouse you're using or the one that you're talking about in particular. And so sometimes there's stuff out there that's been around for a long time, we just haven't noticed it because we're flipping through the pages so fast looking for something else. And so surprisingly enough that I mean, there's even a place here in Grass Valley called Peaceful Valley Farm Supply that ships a lot of stuff. And over the years, they've had greenhouse parts too. So it's just a matter of kinda looking around and and, you know, really trying to engage in what you're what you're doing for your plastic and seeing if any of these other things might fit or work or or help in any ways. But I would say that generally speaking, getting greenhouse plastic tight so that it doesn't hold water is pretty common for everybody in the hoop house and and greenhouse game because you know, weather mother nature is pretty powerful, and she typically always wins in one way or the other. And so I would say that it it it's kind of a ongoing, situation to be worked on. Yeah. I I agree. It's it's hard. A lot of these, a lot of these at the greenhouse is at this grade. The plastic is just held on with Velcro hoops, and so they they can slide all over this the galvanized steel. So anything that you that we can do to to, anchor them to the ground is gonna be a win. So the last the last thing I wanna talk about is actually the ground, on this topic before we go to the first break, and that is whether or not to put flooring. And, you know, I've really been torn on this over the years. On one hand, I have, liked leaving my greenhouses just bare dirt, because, you know, I'm a grower of the soil food web mindedness, and and the idea of having the floor be natural, there so that there are, you know, voluntary pest predators that are growing there that are growing there naturally, and and, you know, the water has somewhere to soak down into. It just seems like it makes sense to me. However, you know, if we've got uneven ground where there are all these, like, little divots that you can twist your ankle in, or if you live like where I live where we've got a lot of, varmints, you know, you've suddenly got them, growing, like little holes underneath your pot so they can drink the water during the drought of the summer. Right? It's it really goes both ways about whether just to leave the ground, natural with grass or whether or not it makes sense to put down a couple pieces of plywood. How do you weigh in on this? Yeah. That's a that's a good question. I mean, for the home grower, I think that, you know, it's it's really up to, you know, what their perspective is on all this stuff. And you brought up a a lot of good points. I mean, there there's definitely beneficials, and there's definitely some things that aren't beneficial that could show up in some cases. And so I would say that if it's just plain dirt without grass, it's good to put something down because when you're irrigating or if some rains come or whatever, that dirt does get wet and it tracks up mud. And next thing you know, you're starting to get stuff everywhere and it becomes quite messy. I've even had people on on just plain dirt put down the ground cover that's been recommended over the years. And when that stuff gets wet from irrigating or leaving a hose on or just dribbling around when you're moving from place to place with a hose, the mud will start to seep through the ground cover even. So it's I think the idea of having the grass is pretty cool. You know, people can be fearful of the pests because the grass can be a nice little habitat for things that you maybe don't want. When it comes to the rodents, the rodents are definitely a little bit of a problem, and so putting down some wire mesh underneath maybe could help keep the rodents from coming up and getting through. The plywood isn't a bad idea. Some people are a little bit iffy on plywood or wood in general because there's the chance in the regulated market, what we learned is that wood and cardboard and a lot of these things can have this aspergillus and maybe even cause some post harvest molds, but a lot of that is a whole another podcast to deal with. But at the same time, wood can get moldy just by nature in general, and so that can be a little bit of a thing for people. If you use pressure treated wood, it has chemicals in it. And in some cases, some of those chemicals could bioaccumulate in your cannabis. And so it's really kinda tricky. I know that, you know, another popular solution people like to go find those plastic pallets. I mean, I don't know if they're plastic or polycarbonate or what they're really made of, but the pallets that, are not made of wood, they can be fairly expensive. Sometimes you can find people toss on those and use those. You know, at the end of the day, I think that anything reasonable would work. And so a pallet could be used, but that's wood also, a regular wooden pallet. But there's people that will paint those with a low VOC paint, maybe even, a hemp deck stain for that matter. There's also you know, just putting some gravel down isn't a bad idea over the dirt in some cases. So, I mean, a little bit of gravel goes a long ways. You know, if you do use the ground cover, I would, you know, recommend putting something underneath it, maybe even some straw down before you cap it with the ground cover just so you don't have the mud that comes through. But, you know, when using the containers that you're using, some of the containers can take up a lot of space as well, and so those cover the ground when people are doing these beds or raised beds. A lot of times, they will even use bark around the beds as a mulch layer. And and, you know, bark is pretty pretty safe in most regards for the fact that, the weeds don't like to grow through it as easy. It doesn't get muddy. And some of the bark doesn't seem to have the same moldy effects, or negative effects that, you know, wood does, like plywood or things. A lot of times, the mulch from wood chips can have a lot of beneficial qualities to it with, the fungi growing into it and having that mycelial mat growing and it keeps the weeds from growing through and it makes for a nice cooler atmosphere. It doesn't get too hot like some of the other things do. I would just be on the cautious side knowing that maybe if someone was to use certain ground covers like black, black can get really hot in the summertime and it can heat up the greenhouse more than you want it to and maybe have adverse reactions to the environment in the greenhouse just because it stores and collects so much energy. You know, it could be a benefit to some people, though, that are in places maybe like the islands or areas where it stays fairly cooler, and they're trying to get some of that free heat into the greenhouse and warm some things up. On the other side of that would be using, you know, something that's a lighter color, a white ground cover. It's kinda the other side of that is why over the years, we've recommended people use a tan grow bag versus a black grow bag, and that's because they just get way more hot than a you know, black gets way more hot than a tan grow bag. But again, that can be a benefit in some areas. I just went to a farm recently that, does put down the black this time of the year because it is colder and they're trying to get as much free energy as they can, and so they do switch the colors up for their fall run. But, and and the other part of that is that if you're gonna be using your greenhouse in the wintertime or the summertime, so you really kinda wanna be strategic. If it's only the summertime, then you might be able to get away with just a lot less or a thinner layer of something. And, and if you're going through the winter, then I would recommend probably going into some type of a gravel base to start with. You might cap the gravel with the ground cover, you know, a pallet or wood or something else, but the gravel is really helpful in the wintertime to keep from sinking into the mud. Wow. Alright. So first of all, I love having you on the show, Eric, because you have such a depth of experience. As as you gave that elaborate answer, I was going through every one of the situations, and and it brought to mind 2 things. Number 1, how you always teach that there's no right way to do it. There's the best way to do it for where you are in the country, what your weather is like, what your growing goals, and what your budget is. Right? And and so you gave us a bunch of options depending on what our goals are, and I dig that. And also listening hearing you go through the list, I can almost see you go, like, oh, man. That guy did this, and we had to fix it, and this guy did this, and we had to fix it. And, like, you're you're really kinda going through a greatest hits of problems and solutions that you've had to deal with with different clients. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately maybe fortunately for me, unfortunately for some of the growers that I've showed up. You know, a lot of the work that I've done is to help people in the kind of a rescue situation or showing up to work on one thing, and I see another problem going on. And and and it just you know, it's been a lot of years of being able to see what works and what doesn't work. And it's not to say, like you're saying, you know, there's not one thing that is better than the other. It just every farm is different. There's not one cannabis farm that is exactly the same, and that's even here in California. I mean, every greenhouse I go to has a different way of setting it up or doing it or heating it or the flooring for it, you know? So I mean and it's the same way across the country. And, you know, the bigger, the fancier the greenhouse, the less similar it is to any other greenhouse. And then when you get to the very basic simple, you know, home jobs, you get to actually see a lot of cool stuff. But in cannabis and in growing in general, whether you're doing vegetables or cannabis, but it seems like with cannabis especially, there's always, you know, 2 steps forward and one step back. Yeah. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's really, you know, not something that is a perfect situation all the time. Yeah. Especially when you're, burning money. So Yeah. Yeah. Right? So, alright. Cool. Well, we're gonna go ahead and take a short break and be right back. You are listening to Shaping Fire, and my guest today is OG Greenhouse consultant, Eric Branstad. Now without these advertisers, Shaping Fire would not happen. So please support them and let them know that you heard them on Shaping Fire. This message is for folks who grow cannabis. 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I am your host, Shango Los. And my guest today is greenhouse consultant, Eric Branstad. So during the first set, we we figured out where our greenhouse is gonna be on the property, and we got it all set up. Let's start talking about how to deal with some of the common challenges that are involved with having a greenhouse. And let's start with heat. You talk regularly about the difficulties of abating heat in our greenhouse. And, this is something that we attract, right, because we want the warmth and we want the heat, because the plants want it, but we also don't want to cook the plants or make them too thirsty or dry out our pots, and so we're trying to get, you know, we're just trying to hit this sweet spot. So, I'm assuming that our number one helper, ally, for for keeping our heat low is going to be fans. But, but I know that you have got a bunch of strategies. So so so why don't I just kinda hand you the mic and say, what are things that we should be thinking about, for abating the heat when we're setting up our small, you know, 20 by 10 foot greenhouse? Sure. I mean, you know, primarily, the greenhouse itself hopefully has some ventilation. And I know the one that you're talking about actually does with the big door in the front and then down the side, it has all these windows that roll up or open. And so similarly to other greenhouses or well, let's back up here. A lot of the other hobby greenhouses also did not have are not equipped with enough ventilation. So a lot of times they have just a little louver that opens by hand and maybe there's one on the roof or whatever. And so, historically speaking, most of the hobby greenhouses that have been on the market turn into little storage sheds in the summertime, and then they don't get used in the winter because people are happy with storing stuff in them. And it's because they get incredibly hot. And the other thing people forget is that greenhouses were invented for the winter or when it's really shitty out, not when it's you know, a perfect hot sunny day. But when cannabis came along, we all, you know, grow the best time to grow is when it's hot summer and the sun's out. And so, boom, we put these greenhouses out there that are not really for that time of the year, and we have all these problems or heat buildup. And so, you know, like I said, the vents are really crucial. You know, looking at these greenhouse covers is also, an important factor. And so the clearer the cover or the the polycarbonate, the more exposure to the plants that we have. And so one of the things that people talk about is, you know, the word heat, but we're not just talking about the air temp, we're talking about the heat that is associated to the plant. And so there's 2 different things that I look at in a greenhouse. And so one might be the air temp, obviously, but the other is gonna be the plant temperature itself. And and, you know, we look at that by simply even using a handheld laser thermometer where you point and the little laser comes out and it you point it to where you want and it tells you the temperature of these surfaces. And so it's really handy to take one of those devices and aim it at the flower of your plant or even a leaf, and you can actually see that the plant see that the plant temp is typically different than the air temperature. And so, monitoring that really helps a lot more than just looking at the air temp because in some cases, if you have enough ventilation and maybe a good greenhouse cover, that isn't totally clear like glass, you might see that there could be a reduction in leaf surface or plant temp compared to the air temp. And if that's the case, you're on the right track or things will probably be okay. But if it's the opposite where the greenhouse is warm inside and the plant temp is actually warmer than the than the air temp, you're bound to run into problems with powdery mildew, mold, you know, botrytis type mold, and things like that. It's just it's it's not gonna end well. So what we try to look at is that, you know, like you brought up, fans are definitely a popular thing to move some air around. But if it's still sealed up and there's not enough fresh air coming in, it's it the fans are just gonna move that air around. And so the one thing that I always like to tell people and and the phrase that I like to, you know, live by a little bit is that if you trap air, it will heat up. And so the key for a greenhouse in the summertime, especially a home grower and even, you know, maybe a commercial grower that has not such a fancy setup, you know, kind of a basic hoop house, is that, we wanna not trap that air so that it heats up. And And how do we do that is we try to take away this greenhouse effect. And so it's okay to have the greenhouse, but it's not always okay to have the greenhouse effect where it's getting warmer and warmer inside all the time. We can break that by opening up the greenhouse and avoiding trapping all that air. And so, you know, on a greenhouse like the one you've showed pictures of, you know, in a place that maybe gets really hot, I would say that the benefit would be to put doors at both ends of that type of a greenhouse. And that way, it really slows down the ability for that air to be trapped. And so when we have these openings, let's say we just have one door, the windows are open, you still might have a little bit of solar gain. It might not have the same amount of solar gain if everything was sealed up, but, you know, it still has a little bit of solar gain. It's a little bit warmer inside than it is outside. But if we put that other door at the other end, you know, we might have now alleviated the ability for it to act like a total greenhouse, and we're gonna actually see the same temperatures inside the greenhouse as we do outside. And so some people might say, well, it's a 100 degrees outside. That's okay. If it's a 100 degrees inside the greenhouse, we know that we've avoided the solar gain. We're not gonna get it cooler by any means, but the goal is to not let it get more hot inside than it is outside. And so if we've, if we've gotten to that point, then we start monitoring the leaf surface or the flower temperature of the plant with our little laser thermometer. And what we're gonna start to notice is that, you know, maybe those temperatures are similar to each other or, in fact, maybe a little bit lower. And so we're definitely on the right track. And this is where some circulation fans might actually help a little bit because now once we've avoided the solar gain, we move a little air across the plants and it might be in a racetrack pattern. It might just be one fan at one end blowing across this small greenhouse so that it creates a slight breeze or mimics a slight breeze. And what ends up happening is the plants actually become a little bit cooler than what they originally were. And so when I have leaves kinda dancing in the circulation of the of the fans, we can see a 3 to 5 degree temperature difference than we would if the plants weren't experiencing any air movement. And so, you know, plants and people are similar in the sense that plants have all this water moving through their system just like we have blood, and our blood's like, I don't know, 70 or 90% water anyway. And so we have the circulation going on between ourselves and plants with this water moving through everything. And so, on a hot day, if you go and stand in front of a fan, it'll have a cooling effect on our body because our sweat, our perspiration basically is starting to get cooled off and eventually, we might even stop perspiring even though we're still out in the hot weather. This fan has created a little bit of relief for us. And so plants are the same way, and so a plant doesn't perspire like a person does. It transpires. Right? And so as a plant is transpiring and we start to blow some air across it, it will eventually start to cool down a little bit, and that transpiration process doesn't go away, but it, slows down quite a bit. And anybody that's had a plant that is transpiring, it's hard to see because it's not like sweat on our forehead. You can't just see it dripping down. But what we see is we see condensation forming on the roof of the greenhouse and trying to drip back down onto our plants. And so condensation typically is a result of plant transpiration. And so if we try to work on getting our plant temps in check, we'll be able to avoid that condensation that everybody is trying to avoid or get rid of and not deal with. And that kinda coincides with the light dep technique when you put your plants in a light dep, cover them in this bubble with a blackout cover, there's no air coming in or out a lot of times, especially traditional ways of growing. And if your plant temps are or your plant temps are up when you go to seal it up, you're instantly gonna see this condensation form. And so people that are able to keep their plant temps down compared to the air temp, and that's why I'm saying, there's not a perfect number that we're looking for. We're just looking for plant temp to be lower than the air temp. You typically don't see that condensation form throughout the day and you don't see it show up as much when you pull your light depth cover. And so another thing that helps with that is the greenhouse cover itself. And, you know, knowing that you have that green cover on your greenhouse, it does provide a little bit of diffusion. It has the reinforcing strings that go through there that makes that cover, you know, more durable than it would be if it was just a plain piece of plastic, does provide some diffusion. And so basically, the diffusion is also maybe another way of looking at shading, you know, or or, another aspect of diffusion is scattering infrared. And so infrared is what brings the heat. And so we're basically trying to disrupt the infrared, but we're still trying to get as much light as possible, and to the plant. And so a lot of times with the clear glass covers, you don't have that protection. They actually can magnify the light at times and it'll make the plant temp even warmer than it should be or warmer than you want it to be just because that's how these plastics work. And so, originally, when I first started selling greenhouses, that's what we originally thought. We want the clearest cover possible like glass because outdoor plants are in the full sun. You know, when we're growing with lights indoors back in the day before LEDs and all these, people wanted as many lights as possible, and they wanted them turned up as high as possible. And so we automatically thought the same thing for going into a greenhouse, but what we learned is the sun is intense. You know, it's the most intense light bulb we have around. And so, a lot of times, the overexposure to plants can be too much throughout the growing cycle. And so having the right greenhouse cover, and I believe the green one in the picture is a great option for doing that. And then I know that the upgraded version is a white, and I've seen a white, I forget the product name of it, but it's a white, you can't see through it. And I almost didn't think it was a greenhouse cover. It's a Sunmaster. They have a bunch of different versions. And this white one actually does let light through, and it worked incredibly well in Arizona. So I'm assuming that the white upgraded version that they have offering for your greenhouse, would be suitable in some of these areas like Arizona, New Mexico, and even California where it can be extremely hot sometimes, where that white will actually diffuse, and calm down that infrared or that heat that's being brought on to the plants, but still provide enough light for a great growing cycle. So in some cases, somebody might just use the openness of the greenhouse for ventilation to take away the greenhouse effect. On top of that, they might use the greenhouse cover to make sure that that, you know, helps or works even better. And then the other thing would be adding that circulation fan. Now somebody might wanna do all of these things into one aspect of a greenhouse to have the most, you know, support or protection. And then in some areas of the country, one of those things might do the job. As far as the one one more question about the fans before we go on to cold. So it's from what you just said, it sounds like a, positive strategy would be a, for example, a box fan set up as an intake at one end of the, greenhouse. And I've got I've got mine hung just simply with Velcro not Velcro. Zip tie, to the rib. And then at the other end, you have an exhalation end, and so it creates this comes one end in one end, and it's being pulled out at the exhaust end at the other side. And then maybe, for the leaf temperature, maybe a couple oscillating fans in the middle. So I've got an intake on one end and exhaust on the other end, and then a couple of exhaust fans in the middle just kinda like moving the air around on the inside. Is is that kinda what you were describing? Yeah. I I yes. Yes and no. And the reason that I say the no part of it is is because here's a couple things, and I'm not necessarily directing this towards your setup, but this is kind of a generalized aspect or or outlook on this topic is that people can put too many fans. And what ends up happening, let's just say, in the idea of fans at both ends, like, sometimes people will have fans, you know, at both ends pointing inwards, and we have only air coming in and no air coming out. So it's almost like this positive pressure idea. And what ends up happening is the air comes in at a high volume, but it has nowhere to go. And so, inevitably, it heats up and it becomes hot inside. And so like what you're talking about with a more negative pressure idea, you have a fan bringing the air in, and maybe there's a fan at the other end helping it shuttle its way out. One of the things that can happen, though, is that some fans and and and this could be even using the same exact fans. Not all motors and manufacturers are perfect, and so there can be flaws in some of these ideas or setups. And so what I mean by that is that you could have more air coming in than you have coming out. And so in some cases, what I've seen in even commercial, the big fancy greenhouses, is that they have so much air coming in that it actually heats up before it's able to travel out. And then and in some cases, what I've seen is there's too many circulation fans on the inside. So what that what that does is it draws more air into the greenhouse than it would just using the exhaust fan. So the exhaust fans are designed to bring in this air and shoot it out the other side. But if you have circulation fans inside that are bringing in more air, it's almost like if you were trying to, you know, put a hose in your mouth and drink all the water, you know, you you you can. It's you you end up having water blowing out your mouth and your cheeks are full, and it doesn't work. And so the same kinda I don't know if that makes sense, but the same kinda thing happens with the fans is that your the circulation and maybe the exhaust draw in more than the exit exit fan can handle. And so you're basically having air that's sitting around in the greenhouse waiting for its chance to escape. And in the meantime, it's heated up. And so we wanna make sure and in some cases, maybe that's the idea for some farms is just to have that exhaust fan at one end that's blowing the air out. But what it's doing is it's it's capturing air at the other end and naturally bringing it through the canopy and out the other side. And so I would just say that, you know, more air movement isn't always better just because we're in these structures and there has to be a way an even in and an even out for all that air. And if we kinda go in between that with too many maybe circulation fans or other things in some of these setups, we could cause the opposite reaction. And so it's always just good to be mindful. And one thing that I always say to people is that it's easier to add more fans if you think that you need more. If you buy a bunch of fans and all of a sudden you're like, well, maybe I didn't need this fan or or this is too many fans. I listened to the podcast, and now I realize I've got too many fans. It's really easier to go to the store and buy another fan and add 1 than it is to sit around with a bunch of fans and go, okay. Now they're going on Facebook Marketplace or the next garage sale or Yeah. Or whatever. And so, you know, starting out with a little bit and adding more is the best way to go. Right on. So let's talk about about too much cool, too much cold, not enough heat. Now for most of us, this isn't something that we're gonna experience during our the main part of our growing season. It's probably something that is happening towards the end. Certainly, there are people who are gonna have cold nights that they need to insulate from, in in the country. But but for most people, it seems to be the end of flowering when they're trying to squeeze out another week or 2, but the e the nights are have dropped below or near 50. And so so they're just trying to keep their their plants awake and the soil awake. At the same time, we don't want to close-up the greenhouse totally because this is also mold time of year, and we don't want them to to the plants that are molding to get other plants also molding. So, what suggestions do you make for preserving that air exchange so that you can keep the fresh air coming in, without, making the plants too cold there at the end of the season? Yeah. That that's definitely a tricky or slippery slope in some cases. Depending on where you are, it's different for everybody. One of the things that I would also look at, you know, going into those times of years is is how I'm irrigating my water schedule. You know, I might actually start to cut back on the water a little bit as I know it's starting to cool down because the plants aren't gonna use as much water as they start to cool down. If they're starting to finish, it's not a bad idea. You know, even though maybe there's the idea of flushing, that doesn't go away, but it uses less water, less amounts of water in order to do that. You know, bringing in cold air isn't the worst thing in the world, but it takes a little bit of work in these do it yourself greenhouses because, you know, we try to put things on a timer or something like that. But a lot of times, you know, we're we're the sensor. You know, us as humans are the main sensor, and we go, hey. It feels warm. Or, hey. It feels cold. We should do this. And so, again, it I think it's really important to have that infrared thermometer so you can point and shoot and see what your plant temps are, especially your buds. And so I would say that, you know, as you're getting closer to the finishing of the plants, knowing what those flower temperatures are and making sure they don't get too hot in the daytime, and then that temperature swing in the night gets too crazy where they get terribly cold. And so, you know, what ends up happening sometimes is it's almost like a air conditioning condenser. You know, it starts to get that On a hot day, that pipe starts to get frost built up on it. Plants are kind of a condenser in the same regard. They don't necessarily get frost and freeze around them or whatever, but they get hot and cold. And And when they get hot and cold, they expire moisture, or not in some cases. And so being able to monitor, where the shift or where that change is and kind of knowing because here's the thing, you don't necessarily have to carry this thing around all the time and monitor things. It's not a bad idea. It's not hard to do. But, eventually, you start to get a little bit of a a groove going. You know, you kinda get that Jedi mindset with the plants and going, okay. I know it's gonna happen on a day like today, so I need to be prepared and maybe close the greenhouse up a little earlier than I normally would. And that goes for the opening of the greenhouse. Maybe I need to actually open the greenhouse a little bit more on these days. And so really understanding and looking ahead at the weather patterns and then realizing what the cause and effect is with some of that weather on those plants in that greenhouse. And, really, you know, the temp and humidity sensors are great. You know, even the basic pool ones that, you know, you hang outside and you don't have to hook it up to any electricity at all are really good for telling us the temp and the humidity of things. And then we look at the plant temp with the laser, and we go, oh, This is where I'm at. So, you know, if things get warmer or colder, this could be what happens. And so in some cases, it might be just turning off the fan, or it might be just turning on the fan, or it might be closing the greenhouse, like I said earlier, opening it up. But I would say that it's best to always do one little thing at a time rather than several things because it's really easy for us to get caught up in how we feel also, and how we feel isn't how the plants feel. And so, you know, when we're walking around in socks and shoes and hats and gloves and pants and all these things, what we're feeling isn't really how the plants feel. There's not an apples to apples situation going on. And so I always kinda laugh when people go into a grow room or a greenhouse and go, oh, it's really hot in here. Oh, it's really this or that. And that's true. It is. But are the plants experiencing that same, you know, feeling or reaction that you're getting out of the room? A lot of times, it's not. And so that's why I say, like, monitor what the plants is really doing. Soil temp is really important, the substrate temp, and knowing what that is and being able to make sure that you're not using freezing cold water towards the end of that cycle and and shocking the roots even more for the development of things. It might just be that we need to heat up the water when we irrigate at that time of the year, and maybe nothing else matters. But, again, you have to monitor all that stuff so that you can really process everything to help make that decision of what direction you're gonna go. Again, just because we read that some guy does it on the Internet does not mean that it makes it appropriate for where we live and our goals and and and how our gear is set up. So always good always good to interpret these things for ourselves. Instagram has not helped the commercial farmer one bit, I feel like. All I've seen is people go, I saw this online, and I'm like, well, that wasn't in your state, your town, in your climate, or any of these things. And so, you know, Instagram or social media is a great place to see. You know, a lot of times people are only showing the good stuff, you know, for the most part. But at the same time, there's more to it than the picture that we're seeing. There's usually more to it than even some of the statements that we read about some of these techniques. And while they're important to learn and and to know about, people are really quick to apply or jump, you know, knee jerk reaction to, hey, this is what I wanna do, or, hey, this is where we wanna go, this direction or whatever. And in the commercial setting at scale, it's taken people down the wrong road. And so luckily, with the home growers, I think that there's a little bit more of a you know, a little bit more forgiveness here, but still, it's it's money out of our pocket when we're trying to grow and do these things, whether we're at scale or we're at home. And so, you know, like I said, the more things that we can kinda monitor and keep an eye on, the better we have chances of making the right pivot at the right time. But, again, you know, I would take what you learn on social media sometimes, especially when it's just a picture and a quick statement with a grain of salt because there's way more to those stories than what's being told. Totally. Alright. So the last area I wanna ping on here before we wrap up set 2 is, is insect pests. Because we're you know, once you have a greenhouse, you kinda have you're kind of a host for a war. Right? Mhmm. We we've got all of the naturally occurring beneficial insects that are just in nature. And if we've got a grassy floor, certainly, they are in, the greenhouse. And we've got a bunch of plants. So they are attracting, beneficial, predators as well. And then if we are, you know, choosing to also do order beneficial insects online from somebody like, you know, natural enemies or something. We're adding those to it, and so now we've got, whatever pest pressure that we have in the natural environment, plus all the good guys in the natural environment and anything that we've added. And now they're all within, you know, these walls, and it's like a cage match. So, what has your experience been as far as pest pressure being worse in a greenhouse and also pest solutions being potentially easier in a greenhouse? I mean, how how does this play out differently in a greenhouse, and what are your recommendations? Well, it's it's funny. Like, you you brought up a couple funny points of the yeah. I mean, it's it can be an ongoing battle, and it's definitely something to be noteworthy of. And so I would say that, you know, one of the best environments for a pest is in a greenhouse. I mean, pests will really take off in a greenhouse just because it's the warmer spot than anywhere else on the property a lot of times. And so it's another reason that Well, let me say this too, is that a lot of people come from the idea of controlled environment agriculture or controlled environment period. They just say that word all the time. Oh, a greenhouse is a little more controlled environment. And we hear that term a lot. And so to be honest, I mean, even some of the most sophisticated greenhouses out there, state of the art, are really hard to control. On one hand, it's just because some of the bell there's too many bells and whistles, and some in some cases, there's not enough talent or people that know how to dial all this stuff in. I mean, cannabis has taken greenhouses further than any, you know, ag greenhouse has ever gone. And so are there people out there that know how to dial these things in and make them work right? There's far and few between. It's really difficult out there. And so it's really better if people, you know, look at things at a more practical aspect, but that's a different story. With with my way of looking at things, I wanna create support. And so instead of controlled environment, I wanna have a supportive environment. And so a lot of the stuff that we talked about is already in that alignment of supporting things. Naturally, how can we, help the plants and benefit, growing them easier and without all these problems and without all these bells and whistles. So that's why I always say, you know, use the word support as much as possible. And so when it comes to, the greenhouses and this pest issue that comes up, it definitely really can be an issue because I've been to a lot of greenhouses that do get really hot and have, you know, adverse effects, and the pests really proliferate and do well in some of these greenhouses and especially these hot zones. And so the the first order of business would be, you know, knowing where your plants come from. So, I mean, if you're starting them from seed at your own house, that's great. You have a lot more control over it than than, if you were maybe bringing in clones from somewhere else. If you are bringing in clones from somewhere else, you really need to make sure that they're clean. And how do you do that? Well, you can take the jeweler's loop, the microscopes, and really look the plants over from the leaves and the underside and things like that to determine if there's anything on them or wrong with them. And then the other thing would be to, you know, work on a a program of keeping them clean. Maybe if you did buy clones and they're not clean, then that program of of dipping them before you plant them or making sure that you're using some type of pest management right off the bat so that, you know, you don't wait until the they they, become, you know, more infested. So get trying to nip it in the bud as soon as possible is really the key, and that goes for the mom plants. If you're making your own cuttings off your own moms, you wanna make sure that your moms are as clean as possible so that you start out as clean as possible. And then as you go into the greenhouse, yeah, like you said, if you have a grass floor or we're in these greenhouses with these open doors and sidewalls and things like that, sure, bugs can fly come flying in. I hear that a lot of times when I've talked over the years about opening the door or rolling up a sidewall on a greenhouse. It's like, well, the bugs can come in. And that's definitely true. They can. I mean, from what we've learned and seen over the years, the bugs really, you know, try to find the weakest plant in in the in the population. And so, you know, plants that are not as healthy as other plants typically will get the bugs first. Some people will even say, oh, you know, I grow these 3 different cultivars in my greenhouse, but they only wanna go to the, you know, the gelato or something. They they like the terps of the gelato more than they like the OG or the the lemon cherry gelato or something. Whatever. You know? And so that might seem like the case, but it's not totally the case. Most of the time, it has to do with and and, again, plants can seem and look really healthy, but when they have this bug infestation, that's the first sign that there is something wrong with the health of the plant. And why aren't they going to the other plants? Well, the other plants are a little bit stronger and more resistant to those bugs, and they found that this strain or this particular plant in the greenhouse is weaker than the rest. And that maybe is because of the nutritional demands and the way that the substrate and things were made up. Maybe we mixed up a pot and it it was the last of our bag of soil and our amendments, and we kinda just didn't give that last little plant everything that everybody else got. And so we now know that it's getting all the bugs because it just didn't meet the health demands of the nutrition and everything that it was put up against. The other thing is that inside the greenhouses, we always wanna start scouting in the corners because the corners are typically warmer than the center of the greenhouse. When the sun comes up in the morning, it's usually directed to one end of the greenhouse or side. And then as the sun goes down, the same thing. And so, typically, you always wanna look on the outskirts or the ends of the greenhouses for the first infestations, and and that will tell you a lot as well. And so, again, we're trying to avoid an infestation. And so the program that you set up from the early time is really important to have. And then the main part of that program, I would say, is scouting. I know that a lot of people's first line of defense is just, hey. I just spray my plants every couple days no matter if I have bugs or not. And, you know, that method is okay, but it it's not the best for the plants and the expressions of the flowers, and it can be hard on the plants to spray them all the time with even organic pesticides. They don't love it, but they also don't necessarily hate it a tremendous amount. But if we're trying to grow quality medicine and trying to keep the plant moving forward, every time we spray the plants with those oils, it is a little bit of a setback, for the plant itself. And so scouting with the jeweler's loop and just really being able to identify where the pests are, how bad it is, maybe gives you the ability to spot spray rather than entirely covering every plant and soaking everything down. And so identifying, the hot spots or where these things are, which pests they are, and knowing the life cycle of these pests. There are times where we don't spray enough. Maybe we're spraying every 7 days or something like that. Maybe that's just the idea that someone has. Hey. I spray every 7 days. Well, in between that time, how many eggs have hatched and how many aphids even maybe have proliferated in that amount of time? It can be quite a bit. And so you're actually just kicking the can down the road. And so I I think that you brought up a good company, Natural Enemies and Covert. They really have a lot of cool stuff as far as pocket guides and jeweler's loops and books on these pests and and, you know, posters that you can hang in your garage or in your grow room that help, you know, kinda keep you on your toes for all this pest stuff. And so, if you're not scouting and using a jeweler's loupe and picking off leaves and looking at the underside of them quite often, I would say that, you know, when an infestation does pick up, I wouldn't be surprised because you can actually find this stuff pretty easy before things start to get out of hand. And so going in and, you know, deleafing the plants a little bit before you spray so that you get rid of some of those pests. And I would say that when you deleaf your plants, you always wanna have a plastic garbage bag or a a a some type of a garbage bag with you so you're not just throwing those leaves on the ground. I know that it's been common practice even for me, and I've seen it in the commercial level where when they go deleaf, everybody just deleafs as fast as they can and all the the leaves are hitting the floor and on the pots. And then we come back later and we, you know, maybe sweep it all up or rake it all up and then throw it into the garbage bag. And what happens is the pests start to move around quite a bit, and you're not actually getting rid of them. And so by de leafing the plants that maybe have some bugs on them, we're getting rid of quite a few bugs because that's where they reside is the underside of the leaf. So you can imagine yourself throwing away hundreds of pests by just de leafing and then going in and doing the the spray that needs to be done. And some of the products I like to use is AZAGuard, which is an Azadiractin. I'm not a bit as much of a fan of the Aza Max as I am the AzaGuard, but the Azadiractin, another product that I like to use is called SuffOil X, and there's a similar product to SuffOil X called TriTec. They're both 80% mineral oil. One's more expensive than the other. I happen to just think and notice that SUFYIL X seems to be a, a better product at the end of the day. But if you need to save a couple bucks and go with the TriTec, that's okay. And I would say that mixing the TriTek and the Azigard together can be a powerful combo in fighting spider mites and, aphids. When it comes to things like thrips, like I was saying earlier, understanding the life cycle is really important because the thrips also, have one of the stages of life down in the soil or the substrate. And so we can spray all the thrips we want, but if we don't treat the soil, they're never gonna go away. And so getting, nematodes like the steinerima fatalee, if I said that right, sorry if I botched it, is a good nematode to put into the soil to help get rid of the thrips or even maybe avoid getting some of those thrips, in the long run. And so, you know, being a home grower, sometimes people don't wanna know all these different ins and outs and details and things, but, unfortunately, it's a really important aspect to to learn and to understand. And once you get the hang of it and read about it a little bit and know the common pests that you have and what to do about them, it isn't that hard to deal with. But, again, if you don't know, things can creep up. And by the time they creep up and start to do their thing, it could be way later in flower too. And that's just a tough time to have to spray and to begin battling pests. And so the more we can do to the moms, the clones, and while they're in veg and even the earliest, weeks of flowering will help ensure that we have a great finish to the to the end of the cycle. Damn. That's so well put. So many everybody's interested in, crisis management for their pests when really the easy solution is on the prevention side, so it doesn't happen in the first place. So, alright. So let's go ahead and take our second commercial and be right back. You are listening to Shaping Fire, and my guest today is OG greenhouse consultant, Eric Branstad. Fish poop brand fertilizer is an all natural fish poop concentrate with nothing added. Real fish poop is extraordinarily complex. Not only are you adding the nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium your plants need to build mass, transport nutrients, and enhance flavor, But fish waste is also packed with biological activity and micronutrients. When you add fish poop to your irrigation water, you are adding life force, probiotics and active microbes. These microorganisms include a wealth of various bacteria and protozoa, which further enhance nutrient availability for the plants. Because plants are limited by the absence of any essential micronutrient, these trace nutrients are the difference between having a decent garden and having a garden that makes you feel really proud of your efforts. Fish poop is a naturally complete solution that fills in the cracks in your fertilizer program to ensure you offer your garden a broad base of nutrients. Not all fish poop is created equally. Most products with added fish waste don't reveal their sources or lab results. Fish poop brand fish poop, however, generates their own fish waste as a byproduct of their organic aquaponics cannabis farm where they raise ornamental koi and tilapia. You are even invited to tour their farm in person or on their YouTube channel to look for yourself. This sort of transparency is wildly rare in the fertilizer market. The folks behind fish poop are also lifelong medical cannabis producers who have deep connections in the community, donate more product than they sell, and support cannabis prisoner, veteran, and patient collectives and charities. To get your bottle of pure fish poop, go to fish poop dot com. And to see their entire line of cannabis products, go to ounce of hope.com. That's fish poop brand fish poop. Sometimes the topics I wanna share with you are far too brief for an entire Shaping Fire episode. In those instances, I post them to Instagram. I invite you to follow my 2 Instagram profiles and participate online. The Shaping Fire Instagram has follow-up post to Shaping Fire episodes, growing and processing best practices, product trials, and of course, gorgeous flower photos. The shango lows Instagram follows my travels on cannabis garden tours, my successes and failures in my own garden, insights and best practices from personal grows everywhere, and always gorgeous flower photos. On both profiles, the emphasis is on sharing what I've learned in a way that you can replicate it in your own garden, your own hash lab, or for your own cnabidopathic health. So I encourage you to follow at shaping fire and at shango lows, and join our online community on Instagram. After you've caught up on the latest Shaping Fire episodes, do you sometimes wish there was more cannabis education available to learn? Well, we got you. Shaping Fire has a fabulous YouTube channel with content not found on the podcast. When I attend conventions to speak or moderate panels, I always record them and bring the content home for you to watch. The Shango Los YouTube channel has world class speakers including Zoe Sigman's lecture, understanding your endocannabinoid system. 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You are listening to shaping fire. I am your host, Shango lows. And my guest today is OG greenhouse consultant, Eric Branstad. So here's our big finish. During the first set, we figured out where we were gonna put the greenhouse and how we were gonna put the greenhouse. During set 2, we figured out how the hell we're gonna deal with heat and cold and pests. And here in set 3, we're gonna talk a little bit about tricking out our greenhouse and proper care. So, Eric, you know, you've been on this show before, and, we have talked at length about, light deprivation, light dep. And, I should probably know the episode number. But but for anybody who wants to listen to that episode, you can look for it on, and I'll put the link on the on the page for this episode. But why don't you explain just just real quick what light dep is for folks who are not familiar with it for their home greenhouse, and they can go to that episode if they wanna learn more. Yeah. Sure. I mean, cannabis is a photoperiod plant, and and what we mean by that is that it uses these light cycles in order to grow or to flower. And so most people are familiar with indoor growing and the fact that 18 hours of light makes the plants veg or grow. And then when you cut that light back to just 12 hours of light, they will start to produce the flowers. And so, when we wanna do that same technique outside, we can't turn on and off the sun, but we can put a tarp over the greenhouse that makes it, that puts that greenhouse in the dark. So basically, we're using, a greenhouse with light depth curtains or tarps that create that photoperiod. So we have full control of when they flower and when they veg, using the sunlight. That is great, dude. You know what I just realized? I just looked up while you were saying that, the episode that you were on talking about lept light depth. You and I are recording episode a 119 right now. We did that episode, episode 13. Holy mackerel. That was a bit ago. That's awesome. 13. Wow. That was 8 years ago. Wow. Wow. Well, it's still a good one. It's just still a good one. So so, yeah, thank you for that definition. And, dear listener, if you wanna hear a really good hour and a half about how to do this in detail, go on back to episode 13 and, listen to Eric and I as youngins. Alright. So so so that's that's a quick little plug for light dep. Because if if if you are trying to be self sufficient, with your cannabis and and you wanna be able to maybe get in 2 cycles during your summer, light dep is a great way to do it. Yep. So that gives light dep a short shrift, but that's it. We're moving on. So, so, one of the things that I personally really enjoyed was, adding some Wi Fi environmental, gauges to the tent outside, and it just is close enough to the house Wi Fi to pick it up, which means that it can then throw it to my phone. So I can be anywhere in the world and know what's going on in my greenhouse, because, you know, mostly I grow food here. And, you know, food and cannabis are all very temperature and moisture dependent. And and if I'm if I can set my alarms and and they can, like, bring me bring me on in, to, you know, to tell me that I need to check on the greenhouse. Granted at the at the home grower level, outdoors, there's not usually a lot of integration of these sorts of products, but, my gosh, they're really helpful if you bother to, you know, spend a little coin and get them. Totally. I mean, it's not out of the question, and there's a lot more out there than there used to be. I mean, there's there's little companies that people barely know exist that have, you know, some of this technology going on. And so getting a couple sensors in the greenhouse that can be hooked up to your phone just to know what's going on sometimes. And, you know, the pivotal parts of the year might be in the spring and the fall when the seasons are starting to change, and you really wanna know what's going on so that you can prepare, to make some changes or prepare to go home and do something about this. And so, you know, while it's like you were saying, it's not a 100% needed and it's not gonna always do everything that maybe an automated greenhouse is gonna do, it does give you an edge. And having that slight edge is always, you know, a step forward in the right direction to be able to, you know, rescue your own crop or enhance the quality of that crop. You know, the a lot of times, with the way the weather is these days, things can change pretty quick. And it might be where you're away from home and you need someone to go back and close it up because all of a sudden, it got cold. I mean, we've had crazy weather where it's sunny one day, and the next day, all of a sudden we get a snowstorm or something. You know? And nobody knows and sees this stuff coming even though we look at the weather and, you know, the weatherman says it's gonna be great. They're not always right. And so it's really good to be able to notice some of these things and and stay ahead of the curve a little bit. Another thing that can be, you know, cool and important to have is that, you know, some of these things can be hooked up to even a solenoid that turns on and off your irrigation. So there might be just a simple, hey. I wanna be able to turn on and off my water when I'm gone from home. And that's not out of the question because, you know, a lot of the landscaping stuff that we use nowadays for our homes, can be outfitted to do that. And so, you know, Rain Bird is a common company or term that have all sorts of landscaping, devices that can be remote or, you know, controlled just, you know, right at your house type of thing with with a couple buttons or, even a timer on there that, you know, allows you to be able to control when stuff gets water or maybe when a fan turns on or not. You know, simply hooking stuff up to a timer because you know when you want something to come on or turn off, can be an important way to do things. But it never hurts to, you know, if you can, throw in a little technology in there and and see if it helps you. I like your point too about, you know, you can only need to go into this as far as you need to. I grow different types of plants. Right? I've got my I've got my my food plants, which are mostly ungreenhoused. But the but the ones that are greenhouse, I just need something really simple to know what the temperature and the humidity is. And I've got, like, just a simple, like, little govy smart temperature thing. Right? It cost me, like, $25. Nothing to it. But, like, but with my cannabis, I'm I take it very much more serious for obvious reasons. Right? I I wanna I wanna know, you know, I wanna know, you know, heat and humidity and vapor and like all this more detailed stuff, and I wanna be able to look at charts and graphs of it. And so for my cannabis, greenhouse, well, I I've upload I've upgraded to like a pulse system right and so so now I've got all the details plus as you were saying I haven't gone so far as to like connect it to my drip irrigation which would be dope but like whenever I want to I could like expand my pulse meter into controlling all of my stuff. You know? And and it's great. You can just take these steps one at a time from season to season depending on what you can afford. I agree. Like I said earlier, and you're kinda hitting that same nail on the head, is that you start out simple and with what you can afford and what seems reasonable and always have that ability to expand. And the expanding can be adding another light, adding another fan, or adding something to that control system which might be, okay, I've been reading and collecting all this data. Now I'm gonna add something where I can turn it on and off myself or something like that. So, I mean, there are especially with that pulse and, a couple other systems, the ability to phase this. So phase 1's simple. Phase 2 might be, getting you know, once you get your feet wet in the growing season, you wanna you know, you can take more on. We have more bandwidth even for stuff. And so, I always try to, like I said, recommend starting out slow, do what you can within your own bandwidth, and then after that season, look at what the upgrades might look like. Yep. Alright. So we were talking about upgrades and upgrades of of around tech. Let's talk about adding lights to extend the growing season. Now I think that adding lights to, an indoor space is an obvious thing, and to to a greenhouse is generally a good idea, though I'm not a big fan of of, the light pollution that comes from people who run their lights all night, but, you know, that's a personal thing. But, I have more concern when we're talking about these small hobby greenhouses of hanging lights in them primarily for two reasons. Number 1, lights are heavy, and the the internal frames of these greenhouses, even the galvanized steel ones, they they wiggle. And I'm kinda not so sure about that. And then second, the lights themselves can generate heat and potentially, melt the plastic just because, again, we're we're not working with a lot of space here. So, you know, I I I have seen people do it. I've seen them do it well. It takes their height from, like, 66 to more like 510, which is light space I wouldn't really wanna give up. But what are your thoughts on adding lights to to a, you know, a greenhouse that's this small? Yeah. It can be tricky. All those things that you said are definitely noteworthy, and each, you know, hobby house is a little different. And so you can't just, you know I mean, I we can imagine we're gonna hang lights and something, and then we put it up and we run into some of these, you know, one step backwards type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I've seen where people have taken and basically taken a 4 by 4 post and augured or put that into the ground at at 4 corners or even just one at both ends, and they actually run, a cable or a pole of some kind, and they actually hang the lights from that so it's not attached to the greenhouse. This came up years ago because when they started doing Proposition 64 in California and rolling out the ordinances for how people could grow, they were kinda weird with the hoop houses. They you know, you either were a permitted greenhouse and, commercially grown or you know, because in ag, you can grow with a nonexempt or, you know, a non permitted greenhouse. And so, cannabis farmers wanted to have that same opportunity, but the ordinances were, hey, you gotta have a permit or or nothing. And what they did is they said, well, if you okay. If you wanna have a exempt greenhouse that isn't permitted, it can't have any electricity or lighting fastened to it, fans or any of that. So then what people started doing was rigging up with, you know, 4 by 4 posts and internal framing so that they could hang their fans and hang their lights, but it wasn't attached to the greenhouse. Yeah. Yeah. To totally outside the spirit of the rules, but exactly how we cannabis people interpret rules. Exactly. We find a way. We will find a way. And and, you know, when you go to Home Depot these days and so when we're talking about lights, you know, a deeper dive would be what kinda light, what color, what intensity, and all these other things. And so the short side of that or the easier way to look at it might be that, hey, I'm just trying to veg my plants a little longer or, hey, I'm trying to, you know, flower them sooner or whatever the case is. And so, you know, you can get away with fairly low powered lights in order to keep a plant in one stage or another. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're gonna grow bigger and faster and produce bigger buds, but it's definitely gonna help keep the cycle that you're intending streamlined for a certain amount of time, and that's where the lights could come in handy. And so you might say you know, and and people have done this even on the commercial side where they go to Home Depot, and they sell the decorative, outdoor patio lights. So it's basically like a long extension cord with some light bulbs hanging on it, and most people would put that in their patio or their backyard for, you know, barbecuing and and hanging out and making more of an ambiance or whatever. And so these same, you know, 40 foot string of lights that they have in a box at Home Depot can be strung up inside these greenhouses, maybe even without any framing because they're fairly can be lightweight. Now I'm not saying that they're light enough for all these frames, but they're lighter than hanging an LED or a HPS light that you might go get at the grocery store. Right. Right. Totally. And, and also, they're they run a lot less hot too. Correct. They do run a lot less hot. And so something like those string lights can be a great way to say, okay. I'm gonna bring my plants out whatever time of the year, and I wanna encourage this veg cycle, and and I don't want them to trigger into flowering by accident. Or the opposite might be that, you know, you want them to trigger into flowering, and you're just not getting enough sunlight in some cases or whatever that case may be. This supplemental light is exactly what it is. It's supplementing some light in order to keep those plants in the stage that you're intending, without trying to rely on them for ultimately all the growth and production that's required. Yeah. Right on. There's one more topic I wanna, mention here. We don't need to discuss it, but I just wanna throw this out there for the the the one person who needs it. If you happen to live in a place with a very short cultivation season, like where I am in Washington state, you can also consider something that I learned from an OG, black market grower in, Port Townsend. If you're listening, man, I would love to see you again. He made raised beds, and he put in heaters in the soil because one of the problems that we run into is that after the evenings start to get under 50 degrees, the the containers go to sleep. Right? All of your all your microbe life falls asleep from from the consistent cold, and so that tells the roots we're done, and so the plants finish up and start to mold. But he would keep, he he would trick out his tents with the lights, and then he would also put them in warmed beds. And, like, he was growing outdoors and harvesting, like, 1st week in January and stuff. And, like, in Washington, that's ridiculous. He said that he was able to, go until the snow started to be too heavy on his on his, hoop, and then he had to be done. So so if you happen to be in one of those places where, the the season is cold and you are in containers, there's an idea for you. A 100%. I was gonna bring that up earlier, and I kinda just moved through things and forgot. But the the radiant heat is really important for production going into those colder months or parts of the areas of the country. Anytime that you have your substrate start to go below even 60 degrees, like you're saying, everything starts to hibernate and slows down progress. And so we want our soil temps to be 69 to 70 degrees. And so that also means we don't wanna use freezing cold water to irrigate with when we do go irrigate. Yeah. And so I'm not advocating hot water, but I am advocating, you know, something that's temperate and not straight out of the ground at, you know, 40 or 50 degrees. So if you can get your water closer to 70, it doesn't have to be hot because hot water will actually start to grow bad things and cause problems as well. But we wanna avoid the freezing cold. And the other thing that people have done is they've, you know, maybe wrapped their beds or even their grow pots in some type of insulation. The the the most low cost effective might be straw mulch even that they wrap around them. There's other people you know, you're familiar with hash makers. They'll wrap their washing machine with that, mylar looking bubble wrap stuff that is insulative, and it can get wet. It doesn't fall apart. You know? And so that kind of stuff chopped up and wrapped around your pots or your beds in conjunction with the idea of adding some heat. And so there are some radiant heat ideas and companies out there. You and I always throw these selfless plugs. We're not connected to any of these companies usually. Yeah. But we plug them anyway. There's a company, I think, in the Midwest called Radiant Tech, and it's radiant, TEC at the end. Radiant Tech has a lot of do it yourself supplies for creating a radiant heating system. And then there's another company that's more commercial, but I think they do have some hobby kits now, and they're good people called BioTherm in California. And BioTherm also provides radiant heat systems for commercial greenhouses. But, again, I think they have something on the hobby side. But if you're considering extending the seasons, if you're considering growing in the winter, or if you're growing in a place like where you guys have the short really short seasons, some of these things can be beneficial, if not all of them, at least one of them, and the and that would be not irrigating with the freezing cold water. Don't pull it up from your well and put it right on the plants. Yeah. Exactly. You're not gonna wanna bathe in that, so neither do they. Right on. Alright. So the last topic I want us to touch on, Eric, you have told me so many times to make sure that I put to get put away my greenhouse skin properly because they are expensive. And if I don't clean it before I put it away, it's gonna get crappy over the winter. And then I did not listen to you, and I screwed up all my stuff, and so I had to replace the plastics the next year. So going forward, I now listen to you, and I make sure I I wash down the greenhouse, let it dry, and fold it up before, you know, before the weather gets too bad. But I I I can imagine that there is some, like, general upkeep that should probably be done on these greenhouse skins over the year. Like, I don't know if there's a plastic conditioner or anything, and then they should be put away correctly. So will you give us your little your little best thoughts on taking care of the greenhouse and how to properly put it away for the season? Sure. I mean, the a little soap and water goes a long ways. I mean, I think if you were to look online of somebody like Greenhouse Megastore or Griffin Greenhouse and maybe even a company that in Santa Barbara called Total Energy Group. Total Energy Group sells a lot of, whitewash materials so that you can, you know, add, a lot of greenhouses in the wintertime that are commercial that might be glass I'm sorry, in the summertime that don't have a automated shade cloth or something like that, will spray a whitewash type of a paint on the glass. And so it basically calms down the sun's intensity because it takes away some of that transparency. And then it washes off in the wintertime or when it rains. And so companies like that might sell a conditioner of some kind, but I would say that, you know, in a lot of areas of cannabis growing, I've gone out and seen that, you know, there is, quite a bit of particulate that settles on these greenhouse frames, whether it's dust or environmental stuff, pine needles or whatever. It's not out of the question to go out there once a week, once a month, and just hose the greenhouse down with a hose so that you get some of that particulate off. And then when it comes to wintertime, like you were saying, is taking it completely off. And it not only protects the skin, it protects the frame because, as you were saying earlier, if we get a tremendous amount of rain, it can build up into the greenhouse in these little pockets and saggy spots. If it snows, that snow load will take down the greenhouse frame, and so will the rain if it gets enough water trapped on top of it in weird places. And so by taking the greenhouse cover off, we're avoiding the frame collapsing or bending or creating any stress on it. And then it's also gonna make that cover last a lot longer. One of the things or mistakes people do is they'll just fold it up and stick it in the garage. And what ends up happening is, for some reason, I don't know what it is, but mice just seem to be attracted to plastic and weird things like this, and they bore a hole in the side of it when it's folded up. And then when you go unfold it, it's like a piece of Swiss cheese. And so, you know, having that piece of plastic rolled up and maybe put into a cardboard box simply is enough. I've for some reason, the mice don't always bore through them. They can, but for some reason, they tend to leave stuff alone. If you can get a black and yellow tote and fit it inside of that, that might even be a better solution for really keeping anything out and bugs and and rodents that that way. I would never recommend using any kind of rodent, killer or spray or anything because a lot of the products or chemicals in those products, can be bioaccumulated by cannabis and cause a test fail. And so, trying to keep like I said, soap and water, letting it dry, folding it up, putting it in a box or a black and yellow tote of some kind, and stick it in the garage maybe, somewhere up high or or, easy to keep away from the kids and the animals and things like that, and your greenhouse cover is gonna last way longer than probably even the manufacturer specifications state. Right on. Now that's the kind of experience I was looking for. You know, the the idea of throwing it in a black and yellow tote is so obvious, and I missed it. I've actually run into the the the rat problems that you've got with them eating through it, And so mine are actually suspended from rope from the ceiling. Okay. And, but I actually like your idea of putting it in the black and white a lot better because, well, it doesn't look as weird. But also, it it won't go through all the temperature changes as the the the ambient air in the garage. Mhmm. Yeah. So that's good. So alright. Cool. Well, Eric, let's wrap up, man. Thank you so much for joining me again on shaping fire. You know, I have always enjoyed your professionalism and your depth of knowledge, but I also really enjoy because you're a good conversationalist, and you're just fun to hang out with. And so I'm I'm glad we got an opportunity to hang out for a couple hours today with everybody hanging out with us so we could just, like, you know, chat and hang. Yeah. No. It's always good chatting with you, and I miss hanging with you. We're gonna have to get you out of we're gonna have to dust you off and get you out here to want something one of these days so we can hang out again, but it's gotta be the right thing. So when that comes up, I'll be calling you. Yeah. The the the the man, I I miss because it used to be, like, it at the very least, you and I saw each other at Emerald Cup. And and and, like, you know, I don't I don't wanna, diss Emerald Cup because I know you're still heavy there as a judge, but Emerald Cup has changed, you know, and and it just doesn't bring all the people that it used to, and and I I miss that old family. It's changed a lot, and it yeah. I miss a lot of that too. It's it's definitely not the same, and there's some other events out there that are kinda like that. But, yeah, it's it's all changed, and the events are all different. But one of these days, something's gonna, you know, happen, and we're gonna be like, hey. We'll be at that I'll never see you there. Yeah. I mean, the wonderland days were great too for meeting up. I mean, I miss the wonderland. Land days were great too for meeting up. I mean, I miss the wonderland days and, you know, some of those spring kickoffs and things that Kevin used to throw up there. Yep. You know, people just don't wanna travel like they used to, especially, you know, a lot of the growers. I think the most popular event or one of the more popular NorCal events nowadays that just happen is the ego clash. I've never been, but, it seems to be, you know, the new community event. Yeah. I agree. I do think that, the these these, specialty, very small, ultra high quality events is where it is right now. I'd love to see the return of a big event, but it would have to take a very particular promoter to pull it off so that it doesn't get usurped as much by the the commodity advertising and turn it into what everything else is. But, Totally. I would definitely support such an event if it happened. Right on, man. Well, it's always good catching up with you. Good catching up with you, man. So let's let's plug some of your some of your stuff. So my dear listening friend, if you are interested in hiring, Eric Branstad to consult for you on your greenhouse, whatever its size, by all means, you should reach out to him because he does that full time all over the country, and he's great at it. So, for that kind of information, you can go to his website at greenhouse advisory group dotcom. And get all that information and reach out to Eric through there. If you are interested in following him on the media socials, you've got 2 options. The first one is the, the the Instagram for the business, which is gh_advisorygroupunders no. Nope. Nope. Sorry. Let me try that again. Gh_advisory_group. That's the business Instagram. And the one that I would recommend everybody follow because it's a good time and Eric really kinda like you can get to know Eric as a person through it, is his personal IG, which is light_ dep_greenhouse. So those 2 are on IG and then his, website. You can find more episodes of the Shaping Fire podcast and subscribe to the show at shapingfire.com and wherever you get your podcasts. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you would leave a positive review of the podcast wherever you download. Your review will help others find the show so they can enjoy it too. On the Shaping Fire website, you can also subscribe to the newsletter for insights into the latest cannabis news, exclusive videos, and giveaways. On the Shaping Fire website, you'll also find transcripts of today's podcast as well. Be sure to follow on Instagram for all original content not found on the podcast. That's at shaping fire and at shangolos on Instagram. Be sure to check out Shapingfire YouTube channel for exclusive interviews, farm tours, and cannabis lectures. Does your company wanna reach our national audience of cannabis enthusiasts? Email hotspot@shapingfire.com to find out how. Thanks for listening to Shaping Fire. I've been your host, Shango Los.