Welcome to the Money is Emotional podcast with Christine Lukin, the financial dignity coach. In this podcast, we help you recover a positive and peaceful relationship with your personal finances. We do this by bringing together wise money management with emotional intelligence. Join us for this journey where we navigate our relationship with money as Christine Lukin draws from years of experience and guest experts to help you get to the root of your money issues. Oh, hello, my friend. Welcome to the Money is Emotional podcast. I am your host, Christine Lukin. Today's episode is widowed at 35. I am honored to welcome my special guest, Katrina Wisdom. Katrina is a powerhouse abundance activator and strategist, best selling author, TEDx speaker, and the visionary behind the Anatomy of Abundance framework. As the founder of Pure Abundance Inc, she has dedicated her life to helping high achieving women redefine success, shift from scarcity to abundance, and intentionally build prosperous lives on their own terms. Petrina believes that every woman deserves a life filled with joy, financial freedom, self care, and community. Her approach dismantles outdated narratives about money and replaces them with actionable principles for achieving financial independence and generational wealth. With a focus on alignment, intentionality, and unapologetic self love, Katrina inspires her clients to take bold action, live with purpose, and embrace their most abundant, authentic selves. Welcome, Katrina. Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be here. Yeah. So you have a very interesting story with money, don't you? Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Well and, you know, it doesn't it it kinda starts out on a rough note. I mean, you went through a very tragic experience of being widowed at 35 years young. Can you tell us about your relationship with money before and during that pivotal period in your life? Yes. So it is a very story, and it didn't actually start when I became a widow at 35. It actually started a lot earlier. I was actually born to a single mom who was 16 years old when she had me. And although her and my dad were together for an extended period of time, they never did get married. And so, essentially, I was raised in a single parent household. And with that came a lot of struggle. My mom was in the entertainment industry as a model and, you know, a lot of different other aspects of entertainment. And you know that when you're in that sort of an industry, you're living paycheck to paycheck essentially because you're as good as your last job. So I watched a lot of highs and lows as far as money was concerned with my mom, and my mom was a spender. Right? She was a spender. She didn't have financial education. She didn't have any kind of guidance around money and how to build wealth. And then on the other side, my dad who was more than a decade her senior, but that's not the conversation we're having today. He actually was military, and he came from a family of, two parent household with lots of siblings, like, totally different upbringing. And so he had some foundations that, obviously, my mom did not have. He was very, like, fixed and more conservative with money. He was a saver. He invested. Right? But his narrative was very much like work hard, save, deny self, kind of. That was the archetype I saw with him. And with my mom, I saw, like, freedom and play. And one of her favorite sayings was, like, I work hard for my money, so I deserve fill in the blank. Right? So this was the background that came from, which was very kind of up and down. And I think if you're a child in that situation, you could go either way. Either you become that very, you know, fixed type of, person in regard to money or you become reckless. And so two very different extremes that I watched. And so I made a decision at a very young age that, a, I wasn't gonna get married, I wasn't gonna have kids, and that I was gonna figure this money thing out. I wanted to find a happy medium because in my core, freedom and play are core values of mine, but I also have that other half within me that desires a level of stability and a level of I'll say decadence because I like nice things, and that's just what it is. So at 15 years old, I meet someone, and I fall in love immediately. I thought love at first sight is so corny, and then it happened to me. It wasn't as corny anymore. Right. And so long story short, we're together for, like, twelve years, two cars, two houses, two children at this point. And not very romantic, but we look over at each other one morning while we're laying in bed, and we're like, maybe we should get married. So, like, legally, it just makes sense at that point. Right? And so you can only imagine my devastation when at 35 years old, at this point, I've been married for, like, twenty plus years, you know, not even planning to be married. I've fallen in love with being a mom. I've fallen in love with being a wife. I've fallen in love with this, like, picket fence lifestyle that I never wanted, but then had an opportunity to experience. And then comes that fateful day. Saturday, I think it was no. It was Tuesday, I believe. February, where my husband woke up one morning, put on his suit and tie, grabbed his briefcase, gave me and three kids at that time a kiss goodbye, told us he loved us, and walked out the door knowing he wasn't coming home. So he went missing. He went missing for twenty four hours. And I was calling. I was texting. I was very stressed. You know, we as women, we have that intuition, and I just knew something was wrong. And then the next morning, I woke up to a phone call saying that my husband had taken his life. Oh. So quite devastating. Yes. And if that wasn't enough if that wasn't enough, the cherry on top of the cake is that I had also found out that same day that I was pregnant with my fourth child. So now I'm a single mom Oh my gosh. Head of household Oh my gosh. Inherit his financial business aside from having my own entrepreneurial bit ventures in business and pregnant. Insane. Wow. Yeah. That's that's a lot to deal with. Yes. That is a lot to deal with. Yes. Yes. So let's talk about, you know, what what was your relationship like with money? Did you know, because you said he had a financial business. Did he handle the majority of the finances in your family? Indeed. So one of the things I respect so much about my late husband is that he came from a two family household, military dad and a, teacher who for a mom. So they had a lot of foundation. They owned homes, all of these things that I hadn't experienced as a child. And one of the things he was very adamant about was involving me in the finances. Kicking and screaming, by the way. Kicking and screaming. I didn't wanna have any parts of that. I'm like, you take care of it. You pay the bills. You handle the finance, and I'll handle literally everything else. Okay? I had no interest. And so he would sit me down at the table, and it was kinda morbid, like, thinking back, actually, but he would be like, well, you know, if something happened to me, if I die tomorrow, you need to know x, y, and z. And he would involve me in his financial business and make me go to these financial education seminars. And, obviously, in retrospect, I am so happy that he did because unbeknownst to me, when he passed, I actually knew way more than I thought I did. And although I was very scared and quite honestly triggered because it's like now everything falls on me, I was also on some level prepared. Yeah. Yeah. Well and so you inherited this business, which was a financial business. Oh, yeah. It wasn't just him. Right? There were employees. Oh. You know? How did you find the courage to step into that role of leadership of leading that business? Something happens within you when you're backed into a corner. Right? And I'm someone who far beyond like, far before I even got married, had kids, and I started experiencing all of this roller coaster of challenges and trauma, there was a lot of challenges and trauma growing up as well. And so I think I was pretty well equipped at that point to handle challenges. And, I had already built up a certain amount of resilience. And so I remember so vividly the day my husband passed, in the moment of just complete hopelessness and grief, that there was this little light of hope within inside of me that said, You know what? Not only am I going to get through this, but I'm going to thrive. And I'm going to be the example to other women of what it looks like to get on the other side of this type of a tragedy and still shine, right, and make it through. So even though I was scared crapless, you know, knees shaking, really kind of unsure of myself, there was a part of me that had a peace because I knew that everything happened for a reason. And I just said, you know what, Katrina? It doesn't matter if you don't know. It doesn't matter if you're scared. Just lean in. And so that's what I did. And like I said, unbeknownst to me, I actually knew more than I thought I knew. And then we as women were very intuitive as well. But I think a lot of it was just sheer determination, to be honest. Yeah. Well, and I would imagine that you probably had some people on your money team, some mentors, and financial professionals that helped and guided you through that. Is that Yes. And. Say that was true? Yes. And so you have to imagine that there were I don't even know how many clients that were depending on him, I e, now me. Yeah. There were team members, a part of our brokerage, that were now looking to me for guidance. Not only am I having the experience of grief and loss and devastation, but they are as well. And so everyone deals with grief differently. Like you say, money is emotional, right? And you never know how that's going to come up for people. So what happened is there were a lot of people that definitely stepped up and supported me and did what they could to help me through that. But there were also a lot of people who, oof, who almost saw this as an opportunity to take that spot. Does that make sense? Like Yeah. Some underlying stuff potentially that was going on or whatever. And I ended up getting the backlash a lot of that. And so it was a very challenging time. However, I do believe that it made me the person that I am today. It made me stronger. I definitely had to find and exercise my voice in a way that I had never had to exercise it before. And I think also what it did is it gave me a level of relatability with the clients that I would sit with because I would let them know, like, hey. You know, I've been a part of this for x amount of time, but this is something that, you know, I'm not I'm not new with. I'm not seasoned at this. So it made me human, which I think made me very successful as well in that realm. Yeah. And isn't that interesting that when we share our vulner vulnerabilities with clients that, you know, it it's almost the opposite of what you would expect. Right? It's like we don't wanna share that we have weaknesses because we want people to have confidence in us. But when we admit, like, hey, I don't have all the answers. Like, I can I can find them, but I might not have them right now, and I make mistakes too, that that actually endears them to us and says, oh, okay? Like, you're you're not above me. You're we're in this together. Yeah. I had this mantra running in my head during that period of time that was, like, all of the things that make me not a fit for the financial industry is actually what make me perfect for the financial industry. Like, I don't fit in. I have a totally different voice. Right? Like, just all of these things. And so when I leaned into my differences, embraced my vulnerability, and just really connected with the clients and our team members as humans, that was when I started to really, like, find my stride. Yeah. I love that. Well, let's talk about the outdated narratives about money, especially as they relate to women. Is there one or two that you feel are particularly harmful to women? And what's what what's a new narrative that we should adopt? Yeah. So there's really just one that screams at me because just like women are are told that, oh, well, women aren't good at math, women are also told that we're not good with money. And the truth of the matter is it's not that we're not good with money. It's that we're new at money. So a lot of people don't realize that we, as women, we didn't even have the right to handle money, to have our own bank accounts, to sign for home mortgages on our own until the sixties. Right? Not the thirties. The sixties. Okay? So and even still, a lot of women are not exposed. Right? If you're not invited into the financial conversation or if you don't fight to be a part of the financial conversation, most likely you're not gonna learn. Right? And you're not gonna build that confidence. And so you have to either have a husband like mine who was like, no. You're gonna sit down. We're gonna do this together. Or you have to be someone who has that hunger and desire. But the gap between those two is large. It is. You know, I I did a a podcast episode some time ago on girl math, and I talked about you're laughing because you know what this is. Right? I know exactly. But, you know, it's kinda like the the cutesy things that, that that women say about money that are actually quite damaging. And as I was preparing for that episode and really digging into the stats about women and money, you know, I I am a solid Gen Xer. I was born in '73. And as I was doing research, yeah, us resilient Gen Xers. Right? Yeah. I was I was doing research, and what I was hoping to find is that millennials and Gen Z women were more financially literate and more financially proactive, and I was actually not finding that, which to me was disheartening because, you know, to me, it's like I know that having power over your finances is a very important part of having personal power. Yeah. And so I am right there with you that, you know, it doesn't matter what your past is if you haven't been involved. Yeah. It's it's time to start. It's time to start now. Financial literacy is not an inborn ability. It's not a talent. Right? This is something that we can learn on purpose. And it's a journey. I wanna make sure that we bring forth this, well, actually dispel this idea that, like, you learn it and that's it. And, like, the rest of the time, you're everything's peachy keen because it's not. That's total BS. Right? I've been having financial concepts pounded into me throughout my entire marriage. I was I've been a part of the financial industry now for over twenty years, and still, I have tendency to to be challenged by certain things because a lot of times we know information. And even when we know, we're not always applying those things. Why? Because money is emotional, and there's gonna be certain times where we're gonna be spending and having these compulsions without even understanding or knowing that we're doing it. So even myself, as someone who's a financial professional, I have highs and lows with money, and that's where I had to just be I had to become very resolved to the fact that money is not fixed, that it's fluid, and that it's meant to be regenerated. It goes in, it comes out, it comes in, it goes out, just like the ocean. And so when I was able to detach my identity from money and really start thinking about money as a tool instead of something that defines me or makes me smart or whatever story you've wrapped around that money, my life became much more abundant. Right? Because now I can embrace whichever part of the flow I'm in and then re re, like, refocus and course correct when needed. Like, I have the awareness and the knowledge. And so when I get off track, I can get myself back on track. And I just think that's a very important message specifically for us as women to hear because we're so hard on ourselves. We're expected to be perfect at everything, all the time. Dare to enter the Wealthy Woman Book Club, where answers exist to forbidden questions, where women of all ages and income secretly gather, where knowledge is shared, where possibilities are explored, where women claim their power. Dare to stay a spell in the Wealthy Woman Book Club. In this place, we lift each other up. In this place, we start dreaming again. In this place, we see financial miracles. In this place, we grow through the glory and the failure. In this place, we step into a new identity. Dare to champion the Wealthy Woman Book Club. We're creating a future where women are financially empowered across the globe. We're creating a future where our daughters stand on equal financial footing with our sons. We're creating a future where we purchase without principles rather than price tags. We're creating a future where we use the power of money for the benefit of people and the planet. Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Book Club. Dare to come in, woman. Come in. Join us at wealthywomanbookclub.com. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It is a journey. And, you know, as you as you do better financially, there are new things that you have to deal with. You know? And I like to say I don't like to say more money, more problems. I like to say more money, better problems, but there still are things that you have to deal with and things that you have to learn as your wealth grows. It's this, you know, this like you said, it's like a never ending process. It's like your physical health. We don't just standing. Eat healthy, and then we're done. Exactly. There's no quick fix. And as your finances grow, like you said, your responsibilities grow, people's expectations grow, taxes grow, all of these things happen. So you really have to expand on so many levels, like mentally, emotionally, your financial education and savvy. Everything has to expand. And guess what? If you expand too quickly, if your finances expand too quickly, sometimes you'll get knocked back down, which again, is why money is cyclical and goes up and down. Yes. Yeah. Well, I love your analogy that it's like the tide. And that's something that I especially say to my business owning clients and friends, because we can't control other people. We can't control when people buy from us, when they invest in us. And I said, but, you know, here's the thing that I have faith in. The it might be low tide now, but high tide is coming. I might not know exactly when it's coming, but it always comes. It always When I look back over you know, I've been full time in business now for thirteen years. And, you know, when I look back at that, it's like, you know, there have been times where the low tide has lasted longer than I would have wanted. But I think sometimes we get so fixated on what's happening this week, this month, and we can get into that that scarcity mentality, and our emotions can certainly get the best of us. Yeah. And you really can apply that to every area of your life. So my anatomy of abundance framework was born from this conversation because you have the financial conversation where there's high tides and low tides. In your motherhood journey, there's high tides and low tides. In your relationship journey, there's high tides and low tides. But what can't have high tides and low tides is our relationship with ourself. Right? We need to know who we are, stand strong in who we are, design our life around who we are, not who we've been told to be. Right? And And that's the foundation of the anatomy of abundance framework is once you know who you are, you identify, which is step two, the disempowering narratives, language, people that are in your life that are keeping you from living as who you are. The third step is to practice sacred self care is treating yourself as if you are the divine and fiercely guarding your energy, your mind, your body, your soul, all of it, creating those boundaries. And then once you've done that, that's the foundation for which you build your life. So then you can go to step four, declare. Start telling people, this is who I am. This is who I'm not. This is what I will and won't put up with. Right? And make those shifts. And then organize. Organize your life to support the truth of who you are and what it is that you're looking to create. So that could be time management. That could be certain systems in your business or your personal life that keep you thriving. So organization is very important. And then the last step of the system is move. Move into action with accountability, right, loving accountability and support. And so if you combine those six steps of, this system and you live that it's a living, breathing framework, your life will completely change. Yeah. Well, and I've got your book right here, Anatomy of Abundance, and we will have it all linked up into into the show notes. So if that, that framework intrigues you, be sure to grab a copy of Katrina's book. Yeah. What would you say to the woman listening who is not involved in the final family finances at all? I've I'd I've got some friends and acquaintances who are like, you know what? My husband's great at this. He's an excellent provider. I trust him. I don't need to worry about this. And Yes. You know, part of me is like, that's awesome, but the other part of me has sirens going off. Right. Well, I will say a couple of things. I will say, first off, that there is something called financial abuse that a lot of women are experiencing and don't recognize that they're experiencing. And that is control through finance, keeping you in the dark. Like, that can look a lot of ways. I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of that. But look up financial abuse and see if you identify with any of those telltale signs. The second part of that is I don't want to ever invite people into scarcity. Right? So when we say that it's a really great idea to be involved in finance and and to, you know, include yourself in financial conversations with your household. It's not from a place of scarcity. It's from a place of abundance. It's abundance in the sense that no matter what happens with our finances, our relationship, whatever, I'm gonna be okay. And what that does is it creates confidence. So I think that that is a factor knowing and being able to step in in the event that you needed to, not because he died like mine, but maybe your husband gets sick or or your partner, your wife gets sick, right, or anything. And knowing where things are, something as simple as knowing where the spreadsheet and all the information is. But the second part of that is just for your own enrichment. There is something that happens within you when you start to empower yourself financially. And even if you don't utilize it, just understanding and being able to be a part of these conversations. And so I'm constantly finding new ways to challenge myself. I've actually stepped back from the activity, the active portion of my financial business, and I've allowed my team to take that over because I wanted to make a pivot and start learning about real estate investing. Right? It's like another level of financial security and wealth building and legacy. And so that's been so fun for me. It's actually a very new pivot just from last year November. And, I've always done residential investing, but I've never done, like, commercial or any of that kind of stuff. And it's it's created this new, like, oh, pep in my step. So if nothing else, that's a great reason for you to start involving yourself in financial conversations and just becoming more, savvy in the language because it is a language. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why I started the Wealthy Woman Book Club is so that women would have a safe place to learn about money and have these discussions where they knew, you know, they they weren't gonna be shamed for their lack of knowledge. There's there's no stupid questions. And it's just been so wonderful to see the women, you know, not just taking advice from me, but taking advice from each other, learning from each other, connecting with each other. It's it's just been such a beautiful thing to see. I think the best way to learn is just be around a bunch of very, very smart people. And so the space you've created is wonderful because as they're learning, you're learning. You're gonna have people from with different levels of competency in there. And, I think that's amazing. That's what we need. That's how we learn as women, truly. Yeah. Well and I I tell people, I'm like, I'm I'm not just the leader of this group. I'm I'm a member. Yeah. You know? I I share my ups and downs. Like, they know more about my finances than anybody else does out outside of my immediate household. You know? Like, we are very financially transparent with each other, and, you know, it's just like I'm like, I'm right here in the trenches with you guys. It's like, yes. I might have a level of success here, here, and here, but I I still struggle with things. And, I think that's also refreshing for them to know, like, you know Yeah. It's not like you get to this level and everything is perfect and you you've got it all figured out. That's that's not how it works. Yeah. You never really fully arrive. And we see this all the time with people who build up, you know, ridiculous amounts of wealth and then lose it all. Like, things happen. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and speaking of collaboration, one of the things I admire about you is that you are a collaborator. I love how you bring a diverse group of women leaders together to co facilitate your retreats. And even in the writing of your book, you brought together Yeah. Experts to write the book. So tell us about that. How did you, you know, how did you get into this collaborative approach versus, hey. It's just me, the expert, telling you what to do? Yeah. I have a a very amazing gift of attracting wonderful, intelligent, savvy, successful people. That's, like, the bottom line. They're just drawn to me. Right? And, with that, as I build relationships, I just am also very good at identifying, like, oh, here's the gap for this person. They need to meet this person. And I used to do a lot of, like, one on one connecting all the time, which, by the way, creates a lot of credibility in your market and makes you a sought after leader. So that's just a little side tip. But I wanted to do bigger projects, and quite honestly, I just started to feel lonely doing everything by myself. I'm like, you know, this would be so much more fun if I brought in two or three people to help collaborate on this. And I have a very deep commitment also to diversity, not just diversity and culture, but diversity and voice. Right? And so with a book like Anatomy of Abundance, yes, it's my framework, but let's get someone who's very, like, analytical and a type and hear their perspective and their statistics. And let's get someone who's super spiritual and woo woo and hear theirs their perspectives. Right? And so and everything in between. So the more voices that you have contributing to a concept or a framework or a retreat, the more enriching it is. And it's gonna connect with everyone just like we all learn differently, and we experience things differently. So it gives an opportunity for no matter who you are and what your background, you're gonna have somebody within that project that you connect with and go, okay. If they can do it, I can do it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Katrina, thank you so much for being here and sharing your story. It has been an honor to talk with you about money and your your money story and your work with women. What is the best place for people to connect with you? Very easy to find. I'm patrino wisdom everywhere. Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn are where I hang out the most, but I also have a lot of content if you just wanna kinda get to know me better on YouTube as well. Or you can go to my website, patrinawisdom.com, and see all the things. Yes. And we will have all of the links in the show notes as well. Thank you so much. My friends, this is where I leave you for today. If you enjoyed this conversation, please leave us a review because it helps others to find the Money is Emotional podcast. And if you're not a subscriber yet, what are you waiting for? Hit the subscribe button, and you'll be notified as soon as a new episode drops. My free Financial Dignity community is now open. This is the place to be if you want a safe and supportive space to talk about money and mindset with others who are on the same journey. So see the link in the show notes to join us now. Until next time, this is Christine Lukin reminding you that you are good enough, you are smart enough, and, gosh darn it, people love you, including me. Until next time. Bye bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to the Money is Emotional podcast. To get in touch, visit our website at www.christinelucan.com, or drop us a line at hello@christinelucan.com. And don't forget to click the follow button to be notified when new episodes become available. The information covered and posted represents the views and opinions of the guest and does not necessarily represent the views or opinions of Christine Newton. The content has been made available for informational and educational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional investing or tax advice. Always seek the advice of your advisor, tax professional, or other qualified financial professional with any questions you may have regarding your personal finances.