Welcome to h two tech talk, your premier destination for expert insights into the global hydrogen sector. Dive into our informative series as we explore the latest advancements, news, and trends in the realm of sustainable energy. Now here's this week's episode. Alright. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the latest installment of h two Tech Talk. We are live here at CIRA week, and I am joined today by doctor Andreas Lippert, VP and general manager of electrolyzers, and Allison Trueblood, general manager, fuel cells and hydrogen technologies for Accela by Cummins. How how are you two doing today? Great, Tyler. How about you? I'm doing well. It's been a very eventful week. It has been. Excited to join CERAWeek. Alright. We're glad to have you. To get started, we'll keep it simple. How about you all explain to the listeners what Accelera is and both of your roles with the company? So many of our listeners are probably familiar with Cummins. Cummins was established in nineteen nineteen and is best known for our diesel engine products, although we make several of the subsystems that are part of the diesel engines as well. Accelera by Cummins was launched in March of last year, so the brand is just over a year old. And we decided to give a special name and a special identity to the zero emissions part of our business. And the reason for this is because we wanted to show and demonstrate Cummins' long term commitment to decarbonization and also our Destination Zero strategy, which guides, much of the company's mission and vision in in our everyday work. And our vision and our mission within Accelera is to choose the most promising paths forward. So we are a portfolio of technologies, and we've had some inorganic growth. We've had some organic growth. We have done seven acquisitions since twenty twenty seventeen time frame and formed three joint ventures. So we'll be talking about some of those technologies today. Alright. Busy. Yes. And as part of my work leading the fuel cell business, this is one of the three portfolios that we have within the Acceler brand. Alright. So I lead the electrolyzer business, which is a close sibling of the fuel cell business in that some of the core technologies around the electrochemistry and the membranes, etcetera, are similar or identical. And so electrolyzers are the opposite of fuel cells in that you put electricity in and water, and you generate hydrogen and oxygen. And this was this was together with Fuel Cells, one of the acquisitions we did, and we saw the potential in the space that really is a completely new outgrowth opportunity for Cummins unrelated to any of the core business and unique opportunity to contribute to the decarbonization of industry and transportation and really investing quite a bit to stand this up and scale it. Thank you, Andreas. So to talk to both of y'all's, segments or or focuses in the company, can you tell us some of the or any electrolyzers or fuel cells or technologies to support their efficiency? Yeah. So maybe I'll start and just talk a little bit about our fuel cell portfolio. So fuel cells are one of the technologies that we acquired. And since we've grown the business quite a bit, The acquisition was a company called Hydrogenics, which is based just outside of Toronto in Mississauga, Canada. And we we we acquire the technology that's associated with low pressure fuel cells. So those come in three different power nodes, in thirty kilowatt, forty kilowatt, and forty five kilowatts. And thanks to that great foundation and all of the learnings that we've had based on what hydrogenics learned before they became part of Accelera, we've been able to advance that technology and are now getting ready to launch our fourth generation of fuel cell. It's a variable pressure, which is more efficiency, and we will launch in a hundred and fifty kilowatt and three hundred kilowatt nodes. How is that possible? How is that large increase from was it forty five to you said up to three hundred? How is that made possible? It's It's a different type of technology. But as we believe within fuel cells, that commercial vehicle will be really the segment where we're able to build scale and looking at the needs of that segment. That's what's driving the power that we're choosing to invest in the future. Excellent. And do you wanna speak to electrolyzers, Andreas? Yeah. Sure. On the electrolyzer side, these these cells, as they're called, that's the base unit of either fuel cells or electrolyzers are quite a bit bigger. So our electrolyzer stacks come in sizes of two and a half megawatt and really comprise four hundred twenty four cells. We can also do half of that in two hundred twelve cell stacks. And the cell is really a membrane that is between two electrodes. There's some additional transport layer material, and, really, this cell is the heart of what happens in the electrolyzer. And so we actually manufacture the stack. We obviously house the stack, but also add then pumps, heat exchangers, storage tanks, power supply, etcetera, separators, to be able to have a plug and play system where the electricity comes in, the water comes in properly conditioned, and the hydrogen oxygen gets produced. Some of those components and subsystems may be purchased, but we actually supply the whole package as a product to the market. And we are also looking at potentially deeper insourcing of some of the heart of the electrolyzer cell. Any specific types that your stacks work for? Any specific type of electrolyzer I specified? Sure. So we have both this proton exchange membrane that I described technology or PEM, and we also have alkaline electrolyzers. Proton exchange membranes, essentially are in the medium of water and alkaline. The electrolyte is actually potassium hydroxide. The alkaline is a well established technology, comes from industrial processes that have been known for many decades. We are focusing a lot of our efforts on PEM because of the lack of chemicals in it and the ability to match the operating profile very closely to intermittent renewables as well as a compact size. And so we're really interested in both technologies, but really aggressively pursuing PEM for the scale up. Alright. Yeah. PEMs are pretty popular these days. So, yeah, that makes sense. So let me ask you, what electrified component systems so this might be a better question for Ali, though, but what electrified component systems are required to complete a fuel cell electric vehicle powertrain? Yeah. It's a good question because it's not just the fuel cell acting acting by itself. Right? You also require a power battery. So this is a key component as part of the the broader electrified powertrain. It's not as big of a battery, obviously, as you would have if you're running a full EV truck. In addition, you have an e axle, an electrified axle, and then also what we call PCAS, power train control and system is being able to supply some or all of these components and bringing them together in an integrated powertrain. And we've we've done over ten demonstrator programs in the US, just in North America, for medium duty and heavy duty trucks, showing how all of these components come together in the power of understanding how they work together in an integrated way. And what this does is it helps us then advance the fuel cell technology. So when we understand how it works as part of a broader system, we're able to be smarter about the technology that's required to be successful in this space. Wow. What a great answer. So let me ask you both. I think this question could apply to both. In your view, where do you see hydrogen playing the largest role in decarbonization? So I think we've always seen hydrogen as essential to the hard to abate sectors. And so people have used this term Swiss army knife for hydrogen because it really is carries two dimensions to it. One is it's an energy carrier, so so it's a means of transporting energy and then putting it the end use. And it's also a molecule that forms the basis of chemical feedstocks. So if you're thinking of green chemicals, ammonia, which is a precursor to fertilizer, that's where hydrogen really comes in as a molecule, as a basic building block of that element. But when we think about replacing fossil fuels and decarbonization, hydrogen plays across multiple sectors. It's it can be used in transportation, and Ali can speak more to that, but also for things like steel making, for industrial processes, for green chemicals, as I mentioned. So hydrogen really has this multipurpose, multidimensional nature to it, and the starting point really is these hard to abate sectors. And when we say hard to abate, these are, sectors where electrification alone cannot get us all the way to full decarbonization. Do you wanna add to that, Allie? Us hydrogen is just it's we think that it's not a one size fits all solution, which is why we've invested in a portfolio of technologies and in the mobility space and actually in the stationary power space as well. It offers a great alternative because of the efficiency, because vehicles can run on a longer range when they're powered by hydrogen. Fair enough. So more on that. You were part of a panel yesterday, I believe, called hydrogen on wheels. I imagine that has something to do with transportation. Care to give some cliff notes? Yeah. So it was hosted by Jeff Meyer, from S and P Global, and I was joined by colleagues from Haizen and also from Hyster Yale. And it was a thirty minute panel, just open conversation. Here at Sarah Week, it tends to be pretty informal dialogue, which is really great, gives an opportunity for audience interaction. But at a high level, we talked about where we see the market going, what's pacing adoption from a customer perspective, what we're hearing from the market, and then also what type of infrastructure is required for hydrogen to be a viable long term, solution in the commercial vehicle space. So it's good. I was happy to be part of it. Alright. Wish I got a chance to, see it. I have to look at the recording later. Yeah. So with all these different aspects, transportation, we talk about fertilizer, What part is Accelera gonna play in the overall hydrogen economy? Tyler, I'd say that we are offering technical solutions and expertise for a wide variety of applications. I mentioned that it's not a it's not a one size fits all. Right? So we are very invested in the broader hydrogen story, being part of hydrogen consumption and usage, which is where fuel cells come in. In addition, we have a large presence in the e mobility space as well. So the third line of business, the third portfolio that's part of Acceler by Cummins, who's led by a colleague of Andreas and mine. His name is Brian Wilson. Within Brian's business, he has battery, the e axle products, inverters, and and traction motors as well. So where I see us playing a large role is continuing to invest in the right technologies for a wide variety of use cases that will ultimately help our customers decarbonize as quickly as they're ready to go. We're ready. Maybe just to add to that, I I think when you think of hydrogen, most people think about the production of it or the usage of it as as Ali described in transportation, but hydrogen also can play an essential role in energy storage. So if you think about renewable power and the intermittency and making use of all of the electrons at the peak of production, so think about midday with solar or when the wind blows really hard and, at some cases, we curtail. Hydrogen can play a role as energy storage, making maximum use of that energy and storing in a way that it can be easily reused, and deployed later through, for instance, fuel cells. Got it. Got it. What do you think is is stopping, or what's impacting customer decisions and adoption of hydrogen? And and what can be done to accelerate the adoption. You see what I did with the accelerate thing. That was great. Perfect. I was you're very you're on brand. No. That's great. So maybe I'll start and then Andreas can add if there's anything specific for electrolyzer, but I expect that the answer's largely the same across both. The first thing I would mention is ESG, ESG commitments that are made by companies. You'd be hard pressed today to look at any large company's website and not see what type of ESG commitments they have as an organization. So especially when it comes to early adopters, ESG is a big driver. The second one, I would say, is technology readiness. We have to build confidence that the technologies that we're investing in, hydrogen specifically, but also on the e mobility side, can power applications such that these applications can complete their missions. And the owners have the same level of confidence in how those vehicles or the applications will operate. So technology readiness and maturing the technology and advancing it is a critical part. The third one is total cost of ownership. It's not just around your initial purchase price. Right? It's around what does it cost to actually run the vehicle, run the equipment overall, because money matters. And the last one is infrastructure. We touched on this a little bit. I mentioned that as part of the panel, we had some infrastructure discussion. But this one's really challenging because we do say it's become a bit cliche at this point, but it is a chicken and egg. Right? What will happen first? Will it be the infrastructure? Will it be the technology? And the reality is they have to move in tandem, but the infrastructure is critical. And for that, we heavily rely on government subsidies and funding. So that's a big piece, right, to to be able to move the market along. Yeah. And and maybe just to add to that, I think this notion of regulatory framework certainty and incentives is really key. When we we're talking about the energy transition, this is an intentional thing that we're doing to decarbonize, to go to a sustainable future. And given where we're at today, there has to be an incentive, an additional attraction that can help to get us to cost parity. And our belief is that once we can really get to scale, there will be a natural cost parity and pursuit of the further steps, but it's really important. And when we think about the current debate around the forty five e, the implementation of the IR bill, it's really important that we actually make it as easy as possible for industries to adopt hydrogen as a means to decarbonize whether or not that's perfectly done as currently envisaged in the forty five e or whether it's more accessible to folks. And then I think maybe another thought just to what Ali said, is also just this notion of partnerships. So hydrogen cuts across sectors. It's this different segments that all tap into it. And so we continue to partner as Cummins as we have done in a a traditional space, and so partnerships can also help to accelerate as different players come together to advance the technology. Alright. Clarity and policy and, I guess, breaking down silos from it. So that would be the main and that might be the title of the thing now. I'm joking. I thank you both for joining us. But let me ask you if you have any closing thoughts that you'd like to give to our listeners before I let you go. I'd like to just say, like, our mission as Accelera is to pursue the most promising pathways to net zero. And so we are fully committed, and Cummins as a company is fully committed to decarbonize the industries and the segments that we serve. And that's really at the heart of everything we do. It's this mission of decarbonization. And so we believe that hydrogen technologies are critical because they address so many, of the challenges of decarbonization. Talked about hard to abate sectors. And so I find it really exciting to be part of this mission. It is personal as well as driving our business to growth and to sustainability. Thank you so much. That was well said, Andreas. And thank you and Allison or Ali. Are we on the Ali level yet? I think we can be. It's the end of the podcast. We can be. Alright. Cool. Sorry. I didn't I didn't upset you. That's that's a good sign. But, yeah, thank you both for joining me, and thank you to the listeners for tuning in to another episode. Thank you, Tyler. Yeah. Thank you, Tyler. Thanks for listening to this week's show. Don't forget to subscribe and share to stay connected with the world of hydrogen innovation and sustainable solutions. Email your comments, questions, and suggestions to tyler dot campbell at gulf energy info dot
