intro:
Hello there and welcome to the Dear Dyslexic podcast series brought to you by intro:
Rethink Dyslexia, the podcast where we're breaking barriers and doing things differently. intro:
I'm Shea Wissell, your host, and I'm so glad you can join us. intro:
I'm a fellow neurodivergent and I'm coming from the lands of the Rwundjeri people of the Kulin Nation, intro:
where I live and work, and I would like to acknowledge and pay my respects to intro:
all the tribes across our beautiful country and to all First Nations people listening today. intro:
Our podcast was born in 2017 out of a need to give a voice to the stories and intro:
perspectives of adults with dyslexia. intro:
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Join us for insightful conversations about living with dyslexia and other neurodivergences intro:
across all walks of life. Our special focus is on adult education, intro:
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So let's get started. episode:
Hi everyone and welcome to our latest episode of the Dear Dyslexic Podcast show. episode:
I'm your host, Shea Wissell. episode:
And today we're going to be taking a bit of a different approach where I'm going episode:
to be talking about my research. episode:
And so throughout this year, we're going to shake it up a little bit with having episode:
me doing some podcasts on my own and then bringing guests on. episode:
But I recently had published my research titled, I Hate Calling It a Disability, episode:
Looking at Dyslexia Through an Intersectional Lens. episode:
And this research follows the work I've done through my doctorate. episode:
And so I wanted to share it with you today because it's a really lengthy paper episode:
and I wouldn't be very dyslexic friendly if I just shared the paper and I didn't episode:
give some type of summary around the research as well. episode:
Previously, we've done some infographics, but today I thought I'd use the opportunity episode:
to use the podcast to talk about the research and this paper. episode:
And really, it's a powerful look into how labels can impact our self-perception episode:
and the inclusion of dyslexics within society. episode:
It was co-authored by Dr Judith Hudson, one of my mentors who works closely episode:
with me, Dr Rebecca Flower from La Trobe University, and then one of my peers, episode:
Bill Goh, who is a dyslexic PhD student. episode:
And what we wanted to do was bring a fourth person in that could look at it episode:
from a lived experience perspective and review it from a dyslexic perspective episode:
so we didn't just have researchers writing this paper. episode:
So let's take a bit of a deep dive into what this paper actually means for our episode:
dyslexic community and society as a whole. episode:
Firstly, let's understand the background. So for those of you who are listening episode:
that may not know about dyslexia or what it is, it affects one in 10 of us. episode:
In the US, they say it affects one in five, so really quite high prevalence rates. episode:
And it makes up the largest, at the moment, the largest neurodivergent group. episode:
So if we're thinking about other neurodivergent groups like autism or ADHD. episode:
Those with autism make up about one to two percent of the population at the moment. episode:
Those with ADHD make up around five to eight percent and then dyslexics are episode:
making up one in ten or one in five. episode:
Prevalence rates are changing all the time. We're seeing lots of adults being episode:
diagnosed at the moment with autism, ADHD and also dyslexia. episode:
So at the moment we're the leading neurodivergent difference but this may change over time. episode:
Yet for many dyslexia still remains really misunderstood and often overshadowed episode:
by misconceptions and other neurodevelopmental differences and still a lot of episode:
stigma attached to being dyslexic. episode:
So this research took a qualitative approach where we interviewed adults with episode:
dyslexia and employers separately, so not their employers but other employers, episode:
to understand how labels like disability, episode:
neurodivergence, superpower influenced those with dyslexia's lives. episode:
So one of the key take-homes is that labels really do matter. episode:
Participants overwhelmingly felt and rejected the term disability and not because episode:
they don't face significant challenges or different challenges but because the episode:
term often carries stigma and discrimination. episode:
For some the label felt limiting, forcing them into a box that didn't align episode:
with their complex realities and also didn't really talk about their strengths. episode:
One participant said that I hate episode:
calling it a disability it's society's barriers, not me, that disable me. episode:
And this perspective really aligns with the social model of disability, episode:
which argues that it's not an individual's traits that disable them, episode:
it's society's lack of accommodations and supports. episode:
Think about it, if workplaces, schools and communities embrace diverse ways episode:
of thinking and learning, dyslexia might not be perceived as a limitation at all. episode:
But what about the other side of the spectrum. episode:
The idea that dyslexia is a superpower. This label is gaining significant traction episode:
at the moment and we've seen recent campaigns by Made by Dyslexia who are emphasizing episode:
the strengths like lateral thinking and problem solving that those with dyslexia can have. episode:
And we're seeing this big movement particularly on social media at the moment episode:
around these terms of superpower. episode:
Yet this research highlighted that most dyslexic adults did not resonate with episode:
the term superpower either. episode:
They acknowledged that they had strengths like resilience, creativity and empathy. episode:
But many saw these as coping mechanisms developed over time to navigate a world episode:
that isn't dyslexia friendly. episode:
So not innate superpowers that we're born with, but skills that we develop because episode:
we're constantly having to use them to navigate our way around the world. episode:
One participant shared, I built strengths out of necessity, not because of magical abilities. episode:
These perspectives remind us to celebrate strengths, but without romanticising episode:
or ignoring the very real challenges that dyslexic individuals face. episode:
And we found that these types of labels may marginalise those with dyslexia episode:
who are really struggling day to day with their difficulties, episode:
who don't have functional reading skills, who can't fill out forms, episode:
who can't get a job or are being underemployed because of their dyslexia when episode:
really they've got a high amount of skills. episode:
That they could be using. And so this is part of society's need to start changing episode:
the way we look and think about dyslexia. episode:
Also out of the research, we looked at the intersectional lens and that's looking episode:
at how power can play in an individual's life and the impact that we may have episode:
on what a power structure might look like. episode:
And so we looked at this through the power of labels placed on individuals with dyslexia. episode:
So for those that see dyslexia as a superpower, they seem to be the ones in episode:
high profile careers or high profile jobs. They're at the top of their career ladder. episode:
And so it doesn't affect them if they disclose they're dyslexic anymore. episode:
It doesn't impact their financial ability. It doesn't impact their job role episode:
or their career opportunities. episode:
And so they're the ones sitting up at the higher point of that hierarchy. episode:
And then if we think of the medical model where we're diagnosed with a disability episode:
or difficulty, and that's through specialists or health practitioners. episode:
Again, so there's that power dynamic of a medical model where a practitioner episode:
is telling you you've got this disability now based on the DSM-5, episode:
which is a diagnostic mental health psychiatry disorders. I've got that wrong. episode:
We'll put it up so you can read it. episode:
But the DSM-5 is what diagnoses us as having dyslexia or a specific learning episode:
disability or difficulty in the first place. episode:
And then if we think about that from a power structure, again, episode:
you know, when we're in school, the teacher has all the power, the student doesn't. episode:
And then when we're in the workplace, the employer has the power to place these episode:
labels on us rather than us being able to own and really identify with these labels. episode:
So we're looking at the different power structures involved. episode:
And that's something that hasn't really been looked at before and was a really episode:
interesting part of the research that we undertook as well when writing this paper. episode:
I think also the fact that when we interviewed employers, they really saw dyslexia again, episode:
if you're thinking about power as a real strength in the workplace, episode:
that they could see how dyslexic employers could be real value or an asset to episode:
an organisation because of the different ways of thinking and doing things and episode:
the way they can contribute. episode:
But these employers had exposure to dyslexia through their children or a family member already. episode:
So they could already understand the difficulties those employees were facing episode:
and they already knew the kinds of compensatory strategies and supports that episode:
they could in to really enable their dyslexic employees to thrive and shine in the workplace. ad:
At Rethink Dyslexia, we are doing things differently. ad:
As a global leader in creating inclusive environments for adults with dyslexia, ad:
our commitment is to provide individuals with opportunities to live healthier, ad:
happier and more connected lives. ad:
Through our range of tailored services, including coaching, learning and development ad:
programs, consultancy and training, we're helping dyslexic individuals, ad:
businesses and organisations to better understand and support their dyslexic employees. ad:
So if you're looking for insights, inspiration and expert advice on dyslexia ad:
and how you can provide inclusive practices and environments, ad:
then head to rethinkdyslexia.com to find out more or book your free consultation today. episode:
So the third label we wanted to look at was really this neurodivergence label episode:
that's come about in the last couple of years, particularly on social media. episode:
Neurodiversity has been around for a long time. It was coined by Judy Singer, episode:
looking at the strengths that autistic people in her family had and coming from episode:
a strength-based model rather than a deficit model. And that to neurodiversity. episode:
We need diversity in everything we do from biodiversity to the workplace, episode:
to education, to society. episode:
If we don't have diversity, then we can't grow and learn and thrive. episode:
And that's what we see in the environment. If you look at biodiversity, episode:
we take some mixture of plants and animals and the environment to enable things episode:
to thrive. And that's what we need as a community as well. So really strength-based. episode:
And then over the last five years, we've seen this neurodivergent movement comes episode:
through in this label where we say everyone in the world is diverse, episode:
we're all neurodiverse, but then those that are neurodivergent or have dyslexia episode:
or autism or AD, we diverge off the diverse. episode:
And that means that we have a different way of thinking to the general population. episode:
And again, looking at those strengths around the different ways of thinking and doing things. episode:
And so what we've seen is this huge push, particularly episode:
through the autistic community and now the ADHD community to episode:
really take hold of this neurodivergent label episode:
but we're also seeing it watered down because multiple conditions episode:
and differences are now being placed under this label we've got episode:
bipolar we've got mental health conditions and differences we've episode:
got neurodevelopmental differences and so episode:
what we're seeing is then if everyone's put episode:
under this big umbrella then our difficulties are episode:
not supported properly because we're saying okay that group episode:
of people in our workplace are neurodivergent so they just need episode:
a quiet space low lighting you know and episode:
we put these particular labels then episode:
on what they may need when dyslexics really need a different episode:
type of supports to those that are autistic or those that are adhd but we also episode:
know that these conditions overlap significantly and so if you're dyslexic there's episode:
a high chance that you might have adhd or you might have autism and so some episode:
of these strategies will work for the broader group but there's also specific episode:
strategies that are needed to ensure that dyslexics are thriving in the workplace. episode:
And so we don't want to get lost. What our research found was the dyslexic community episode:
wasn't really embracing the neurodiversity or neurodivergence label either. episode:
They weren't feeling part of that community. And that at the moment, episode:
it feels like we don't really have a broader community to be part of. episode:
And that the neurodivergent conversation has really been centered around autism episode:
and ADHD when it's so much broader than that. episode:
And we need to start thinking in the workplace more broadly than those two conditions. episode:
So where do we go from here? The research really makes a compelling case for episode:
rethinking the different labels altogether and what we're seeing through social episode:
media and what we're seeing in the news and globally around these different labels. episode:
For those with dyslexia, identity first language like saying I am dyslexic rather episode:
than I have dyslexia was empowering but they use both terms interchangeably episode:
and so sometimes when I go to speak people say it's not dyslexia it's a specific episode:
learning difficulty or a specific learning difference. episode:
And yes, that's the label used in the DSM-5, but what are adults and what are episode:
individuals wanting to use for themselves? episode:
And at the moment, dyslexic and dyslexia seem to be the most common. episode:
Most comfortable terms for them to be using at the moment. So we can't take that away from them. episode:
That is their preference. So whether you're an education employer, episode:
a parent, you have to let that individual choose what label is most suitable episode:
and most comfortable for them in their skin. episode:
So the choice of language may seem small but it has a ripple effect and employers episode:
and educators can adopt these terms to foster environments where dyslexic individuals episode:
feel valued and understood and this isn't just good for dyslexics, it's good for everyone. episode:
When we challenge ableist language like we've talked about and what we saw in the research. episode:
So dumb, stupid, try harder, not find detailed enough. episode:
We had one participant ask what it was like to have an intellectual disability episode:
and some really negative labels that were placed on our participants from a young age. episode:
And those labels were sticky and they stuck to them. And as they progressed into adulthood, episode:
they still had those labels, feelings attached to them so we could see the impact episode:
that this had on self-esteem and self-confidence and people's ability to then episode:
be able to self-advocate if they're going to and disclose because if they're episode:
going to disclose the fear of those labels coming back episode:
and resurfacing is really, is a real fear for people and is a real challenge episode:
and a real stigma that we have to try and break through. episode:
And so those ableist language and terms like everyone's a bit dyslexic or, episode:
you know, everyone struggles with spelling. That's true. episode:
Everyone can struggle with spelling, but we actually have a difficulty that episode:
affects us with our spelling altogether. episode:
So we really need to redesign workplaces and classrooms and society in general to be more inclusive, episode:
where we can unlock the potential of our entire community that has really historically episode:
underestimated and undermined those with dyslexia. episode:
And for the first time, we're really looking at what adults want. episode:
We haven't had the opportunity in Australia. episode:
I'm not sure why we have the least amount of research in Australia on adulthood episode:
dyslexia, particularly compared to other neurodivergent differences. episode:
And this really needs to change. So I'll get off my soapbox and let's look at episode:
some strategies that can help us moving forward. episode:
So we need to dismantle ableist language. episode:
So superpower can be an ableist language, just like dumb, stupid, or lazy. episode:
And there's three actual ways we could start to do that. And that's through episode:
embracing strength-based labels. episode:
Instead of focusing solely on the deficits, let's highlight the strengths and episode:
unique ways dyslexic individuals approach problem-solving, lateral thinking. episode:
What made by dyslexia is created is a dyslexic thinking term that you can use on LinkedIn now. episode:
Whether that resonates with you or not, I'm not sure, but it really is trying episode:
to look at one of those positive terms. episode:
And for employers to really start to frame dyslexics and dyslexia as an asset episode:
to their organisation, not a challenge, because really when we've got the right episode:
supports in place, we are an episode:
asset to organisations and our research is starting to demonstrate that. episode:
Also, that we need to create psychologically safe environments in schools, episode:
in workplaces and beyond. episode:
Many participants shared experiences of shame or fear of disclosing their dyslexia, episode:
especially in the workplace. episode:
So by fostering open communication, offering accommodations without judgment, episode:
we can start to create environments where people feel safe to be their true, authentic selves. episode:
And that's what we want, is that everyone in society can be their true, episode:
authentic self and that it's okay to be different. episode:
And then educate and advocate constantly. What we're doing is educating and episode:
advocating, and this is what this research is doing. episode:
We need to start reducing the misconceptions about dyslexia that persist across society. episode:
Educators, employers and policymakers need to train, be trained to understand episode:
dyslexia beyond reading difficulties. episode:
They need to start recognising its diverse impacts from processing speed to episode:
working memory challenges to significant mental health challenges that we can episode:
face, burnout, poor self-esteem, episode:
lower overall well-being outcomes compared to the general population, episode:
higher rates of suicide attempts and anxiety and depression. episode:
All these things could be reduced if there was better understanding of how to episode:
support and work with dyslexic adults. episode:
So at the core of this research, it really highlights that labels are not just episode:
words, they're tools of power and used thoughtfully, they can validate experiences and open doors. episode:
Used carelessly, they can marginalise and exclude and cause significant harm to individuals. episode:
By listening to the voices of dyslexic adults, as this study has done, episode:
we can start to build a society that truly values those with dyslexia. episode:
And I think it really indicates the need to start having dyslexics at the table, episode:
whether it's a neurodivergent conversation, whether it's looking at the medical episode:
model, whether it's looking at policy change and what supports are in place. episode:
Dyslexics need to be at the table in the workplace and education. episode:
It's not just the parents now. We're moving beyond just parents into adulthood episode:
and dyslexic individuals need to be there. episode:
And we're not right now. We're not in the neurodivergent conversation. episode:
We're not in any policy change. episode:
There's no Senate inquiry into dyslexia. There's no dyslexia strategy being put together. episode:
And so government in particular really needs to start thinking about why is this happening? episode:
Why are we not there compared to other neurodivergent conditions? episode:
So to all the dyslexics listening today, thank you. your experience matters, episode:
your voice matters, and you are more than just your labels. episode:
And to our allies, it's time to rethink how we speak about and support dyslexics, episode:
because everyone deserves the opportunity to thrive, and we deserve to start episode:
being at the table, listened to, and included in these conversations. episode:
To find out more about the research paper, you can head to .com.au, episode:
and the research paper is available for you to download and read further. episode:
So once again thank you for listening and I look forward to speaking to you episode:
next month with our latest guest which will be Rob on dyscalculia. episode:
So that will be an exciting and interesting conversation to have around how episode:
we can better support young people and adults who have dyscalculia. episode:
So thank you for tuning in to this podcast around my research and let's continue episode:
to advocate, learn and build a more inclusive world together. Until then, bye for now. outro:
If you haven't done so already, make sure you sign up to our mailing list so outro:
you can keep up to date with everything we're doing at Rethink Dyslexia. outro:
So head to rethinkdyslexia.com.au and don't forget if there's anything you heard outro:
today that was distressing, outro:
you can contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 46 36. outro:
Thanks for listening and bye for now.